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lordmongrove Great Old One Joined: 30 May 2009 Total posts: 865 Location: Exeter Age: 43 Gender: Male |
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| theyithian Keeping the British end up
Joined: 29 Oct 2002 Total posts: 11704 Location: Vermilion Sands Gender: Unknown |
 Posted: 25-09-2013 15:48 Post subject: |
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Yes.
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kamalktk Great Old One Joined: 05 Feb 2011 Total posts: 705 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 25-09-2013 16:53 Post subject: |
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To the thread title question, or to the post's question?  |
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| theyithian Keeping the British end up
Joined: 29 Oct 2002 Total posts: 11704 Location: Vermilion Sands Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 25-09-2013 17:22 Post subject: |
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| kamalktk wrote: |
To the thread title question, or to the post's question? |
The latter.
See the Jack the Ripper Thread:
http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1354840
Nobody believes Jack the Ripper was a man called Jack; opinion differs on the 'Dear Boss' letter so signed. Asking whether Jack the Ripper existed is as pointless as asking whether Shakespeare existed. In a trifling sense, neither did (the accretion of myth is not the man), but far more importantly somebody murdered those women and wrote those plays.
Trevor Mariot is a much greater self-publicist than ripperologist. He meets any criticism or call for evidence with the response that he used to be a police detective; if he's really pushed on a point he'll mention how many years he did the job or cite famous cases he was tangentially linked to.
This interview (IIRC) gave me a poor impression of the man:
http://www.casebook.org/podcast/listen.html?id=44
"Perhaps, maybe, it's possible that, conceivably, highly likely" |
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| Cochise Great Old One Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Total posts: 1104 Location: Gwynedd, Wales Age: 58 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 26-09-2013 07:45 Post subject: |
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The only qualification I'd put is that there is no certainty the murders were all carried out by one person. Opinions - both modern and contemporary - vary on anything from 3 to about a dozen as being the work of the killer.
So the newspaper construct of 'Jack the Ripper' may be a major red herring in trying to work out who might be the actual murderer(s). Personally, I've never been convinced that the earlier sobriquet of 'Leather Apron' was wholly off the track, although the person the police concluded was 'Leather Apron' was not Jack The Ripper.
One of the remarkable features of the whole case is that the contemporary newspapers were already talking about a series of atrocities when the first victim now generally associated with JtR was discovered. |
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| theyithian Keeping the British end up
Joined: 29 Oct 2002 Total posts: 11704 Location: Vermilion Sands Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 26-09-2013 10:14 Post subject: |
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All very sound points.
The question, then, ought more cogently to be: how many Jack the Rippers existed.
I recently read another of Trevor Marriot's gems online:
He believes it a very real possibility that the organs were removed and stolen from the victims after death while the awaiting their post-mortem examinations.
(Hope I'm getting that right!) |
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| Cochise Great Old One Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Total posts: 1104 Location: Gwynedd, Wales Age: 58 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 27-09-2013 07:39 Post subject: |
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For some reason its a topic people can get very strange about. I was interested for a while, but put it on the back burner when I realised there really is nothing to go on.
The post mortems are equivocal and we don't know which ones are relevant, the killer(s) left no other useful evidence, the police at the time had conflicting incompatible theories and there is not a single eye-witness who can be definitely identified as having seen the perpetrator(s). The letters likewise - likely none of them came from the ripper, and if any of them did we don't know which ones.
Not so much an unsolved mystery as an unsolvable one.
Sorry to any JtR amateur detectives who that may upset, but the truth is the only profitable line of enquiry into JtR is as a sociological phenomenon, there is no hope of ever pinning down the murderer(s) at this remove in time. |
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| Heckler20 The Sockpuppet of
Cthulhu's Prodigal Son Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Total posts: 4702 Location: In the Nostril of The Crawling Chaos Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 27-09-2013 11:41 Post subject: |
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| Cochise wrote: | The letters likewise - likely none of them came from the ripper, and if any of them did we don't know which ones.
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That said the one letter that does have a smack of authenticity about it (or at least the posssibility of such) is the 'From Hell' letter that was sent to George Lusk of the vigilance committee along with a piece of kidney.
The left kidney was removed from Eddowes and the kidney in the box with the letter was human and a portion of the left kidney. Most interestingly it ws the kidney of someone believed to be suffering from Bright's disease as was Eddowes.
So you have either a genuine letter or a very very elaborate practical joke. I wonder at the effort required to pull this off but certain don't preclude this possibility, but I do wonder if someone intent on a prank would go to the trouble of sending such a good match (or was it an offhand prank matched to an incredible coincidence?). |
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| Cochise Great Old One Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Total posts: 1104 Location: Gwynedd, Wales Age: 58 Gender: Male |
| Posted: 30-09-2013 11:51 Post subject: |
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That does strike me as what we might call the 'least unlikely' letter, yes. Not least because it does not mention 'Jack the Ripper'.
Unfortunately the evidence about the kidney, as usual with anything JtR, is contradictory and it basically depends on who you want to quote. I believe (without checking) the original letter has been lost in quite recent times as well - might be confusing that with another letter though.
Almost any 'fact' in the case beyond the basics that these poor women were killed tends to take on the same elusive nature when one tries to verify it. Which is why I gave up on it. |
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| RyoHazuki Grey Joined: 24 Sep 2013 Total posts: 4 Location: Last refuge of the Druids Gender: Male |
| Posted: 01-10-2013 21:29 Post subject: |
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The only book I've bothered to read on the subject was the Philip Sugden one, which I stumbled across purely by chance in a 2nd-hand shop. I was quite impressed: a large portion of the text seems to be given over to debunking all the various myths and inaccuracies which have been taken as fact over the years, and even aside from the main subject, it paints an excellent picture of the social environment and haphazard police procedures of the time. While I can appreciate the huge effect that the murders had on society at the time, I find it a bit laughable that individuals are still seriously trying to solve them, when all solid evidence which may (or may not) have existed has perished long ago.
Also, "From Hell" was a great film (but a tough book)  |
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| gncxx King-Size Canary
Great Old One Joined: 25 Aug 2001 Total posts: 13555 Location: Eh? Gender: Male |
| Posted: 01-10-2013 22:21 Post subject: |
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| Was Jack the Ripper the Loch Ness Monster? |
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| Anome_ Faceless Man
Great Old One Joined: 23 May 2002 Total posts: 5377 Location: Left, and to the back. Age: 45 Gender: Male |
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| cherrybomb Skating the thin crust
Great Old One Joined: 26 Aug 2009 Total posts: 1005 Location: Sitting on the roof at dusk Gender: Female |
| Posted: 02-10-2013 15:54 Post subject: |
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| gncxx wrote: | | Was Jack the Ripper the Loch Ness Monster? |
Yes, sent here by aliens which only David Icke can see!   |
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| gncxx King-Size Canary
Great Old One Joined: 25 Aug 2001 Total posts: 13555 Location: Eh? Gender: Male |
| Posted: 02-10-2013 17:44 Post subject: |
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| Anome_ wrote: | | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2yVZCVLK3E |
That's the one! |
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| Spookdaddy Cuckoo Joined: 24 May 2006 Total posts: 3923 Location: Midwich Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 04-10-2013 14:45 Post subject: |
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| RyoHazuki wrote: | | The only book I've bothered to read on the subject was the Philip Sugden one, which I stumbled across purely by chance in a 2nd-hand shop. I was quite impressed: a large portion of the text seems to be given over to debunking all the various myths and inaccuracies which have been taken as fact over the years, and even aside from the main subject, it paints an excellent picture of the social environment and haphazard police procedures of the time... |
A great read.
I've been floundering about looking for something to get stuck into for a while (I'm in one of those restless patches where nothing seems to suit.) Anyway, I started re-reading this last night - thanks for the reminder. |
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