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Heavens above: a global globe paradox?
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ErmintrudeOffline
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PostPosted: 06-02-2014 22:37    Post subject: Heavens above: a global globe paradox? Reply with quote

Most of the FTMB will remember back to around 1997, when the skies were lit-up so strangely by the amazing sight that was the Hale-Bopp comet. If you missed it, I feel sorry for you, as it really was a fantastic sight.

In the August of the following year, I was up near the impressive yet unrenowned structure that is Stirling Castle late one weekend evening (I'd say after 11pm). The world had become used to having lost it's celestial beacon, as the comet had now departed on it's wandering path, but I could see something in the sky that made no sense, and yet looked entirely-familiar, on what was a crystal-clear night.

Over to the north-west, at the highest zenith point where you would expect to see Polaris, we could see an unmistakable glowing patch, which was pale purple-gold in colour, and giving the impression either of slight movement or twinkling (there were no clouds visible, but there could have been some that we couldn't see).

Tracking down from this point were what I can only describe as a large number of faint but definite curving lines descending like arches: not perfectly 'straight', in that they seemed to be almost like tree branches, but all roughly equally spaced from each-other.

I realised with instant shock that what we were seeing was almost identical to the classical representation of the imagined celestial sphere, separated at least partly into what appeared to be meridian lines. This didn't make sense to me, then or now, because I'd always believed this to have been used along with a representation of the constellations, rather than a direct physical reality.

I couldn't manage to accurately count the segments/lobes, because of the way in which the entire vision seemed to shimmer, nor was I in any way able to try and relate the star constellations against the weird wirebox effect that was inarguably but impossibly up there. I know very little detail about astronomy, but am certain that what we saw appeared to be a physical reality, and it was on a scale that was literally global. It was not identical to a representation of a globe, in that the meridian 'lines' only appeared to come down a bit less that about one-quarter of the way towards the horizon, but it was absolutely and utterly strange to behold.

I've been lucky enough to see, in Canada, the Aurora Borealis (which was very impressive) but this was an infinite number of magnitudes different- this effect was vast, and very very high, and totally unlike the Aurora, which by comparison was low, cloudy, and sparkling (wispy not wirey).

I've thought about this a number of times since, but this is the first time I've put the experience down in writing. I've never had the chance to speak with a proper tame astronomer or cosmologist about the experience, but I presume that they would explain it away (perhaps quite correctly) as some form of ionospheric disturbance?

The impression was almost as if we, in our world, in our universe, were looking sideways and up towards the inside of a galactic birdcage, or we were 'seeing the shine' from us trapped in the bottom of a snow-globe.

But I cannot shake off the scary possibility that the ancients may have witnessed this effect in the past, and this is what created the universal understanding/interpretation of what the 'celestial sphere' is, rather than it being an abstract concept.

And now having written all this down, I realise that I'm so woefully ignorant about matters archeo-astronomical, perhaps this is actually the acknowledged reality as to how the celestial sphere, and the globe, are conventionally represented with meridian lines, and a 'pole'? No, surely not, I've never read about this before, I'm pretty certain this isn't the shared acceptance as to the origins of the 'earth/stars globe'.

I'd really appreciate feedback / comment on this experience.
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feinmanOffline
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PostPosted: 06-02-2014 23:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bizarre! You saw the old paradigm crystal spheres or a glitch in the matrix
Shocked A long shot, but could it have been rays of light bent by the Earth's magnetic field, only visible from your perspective? But they were so discrete.. Still the brightness at the apex.. Celestial ley lines? http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/mapas_ocultotierra/esp_mapa_ocultotierra_07.htm

From: http://www.livescience.com/41349-ley-lines.html
'Read John Michell's "View Over Atlantis" for a more sympathetic analysis of ley lines & Watkin's vision of lines in the sky - conveniently left out of this article. As always make up your own mind.'

http://www.pauldevereux.co.uk/html/body_leylines.html
From that site:
'In the USA meanwhile, through the 1970s and the 1980s, the idea of energy lines grew and grew and became a part of the New Age movement there. People started talking about interplanetary and even intergalactic 'ley lines', lines of yin or yang energy, 'ley lines' that came down from the sky as columns of force which turned at right angles when they reached the Earth's surface, and then ran along under the ground!'
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rynner2Offline
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PostPosted: 07-02-2014 00:31    Post subject: Re: Heavens above: a global globe paradox? Reply with quote

Ermintrude wrote:
Over to the north-west, at the highest zenith point where you would expect to see Polaris, we could see an unmistakable glowing patch, which was pale purple-gold in colour, and giving the impression either of slight movement or twinkling (there were no clouds visible, but there could have been some that we couldn't see).

Tracking down from this point were what I can only describe as a large number of faint but definite curving lines descending like arches: not perfectly 'straight', in that they seemed to be almost like tree branches, but all roughly equally spaced from each-other.

Difficult to comment, really! We're not speaking the same language.

In the NW, you should have seen the Plough (the main part of Ursa Major).
Polaris would have been to the north, but not at the zenith (which is, by definition, overhead).

"an unmistakable glowing patch, which was pale purple-gold in colour, and giving the impression either of slight movement or twinkling". In astronomy, 'patches' don't twinkle, only stars do.
But maybe it was a swarm of fireflies? (It was summer.)

More than that I cannot say, at present.
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feinmanOffline
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PostPosted: 07-02-2014 03:07    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't necessarily believe the links and material I posted, just searching for unusual things and presenting them! Rynner2 is actually trying to find a reasonable explanation for you.
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linesmachineOffline
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PostPosted: 07-02-2014 09:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

God knows what it was. In truth I am struggling from your description to picture it in my mind. Would a drawing help?

As for Hale-Bopp, at the time I was working nights in a restaurant and used to drive 10 miles home through dark countryside. HB totally was a beacon and was quite startling, much more impressive visually than most astronomers predicted it might be.
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rpkempOffline
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PostPosted: 07-02-2014 13:52    Post subject: Re: Heavens above: a global globe paradox? Reply with quote

rynner2 wrote:
In astronomy, 'patches' don't twinkle, only stars do.



And I suppose gigantic interstellar bird cages don't twinkle either??
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rynner2Offline
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PostPosted: 07-02-2014 18:06    Post subject: Re: Heavens above: a global globe paradox? Reply with quote

rpkemp wrote:
rynner2 wrote:
In astronomy, 'patches' don't twinkle, only stars do.

And I suppose gigantic interstellar bird cages don't twinkle either??

When I've seen a gigantic interstellar bird, I'll be clearer in my mind as to what its cage might be like! Wink
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feinmanOffline
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PostPosted: 07-02-2014 18:17    Post subject: Re: Heavens above: a global globe paradox? Reply with quote

rynner2 wrote:
rpkemp wrote:
rynner2 wrote:
In astronomy, 'patches' don't twinkle, only stars do.

And I suppose gigantic interstellar bird cages don't twinkle either??

When I've seen a gigantic interstellar bird, I'll be clearer in my mind as to what its cage might be like! Wink


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-oQje2Bqw170/T2AGnQUzwJI/AAAAAAAACu8/exjpbo6sFKs/s1600/spacebird.jpg

Laughing
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rushfan62Offline
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PostPosted: 08-02-2014 20:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Most of the FTMB will remember back to around 1997, when the skies were lit-up so strangely by the amazing sight that was the Hale-Bopp comet. If you missed it, I feel sorry for you, as it really was a fantastic sight.

I am amazed at how many people I talk to who have no recollection of this! I remember going out with my brother and others when it first appeared and lying on my bed staring at it when it was at its most visible. People I speak to now don't seem to remember it, lack of interest I suppose?
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rasputinOffline
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PostPosted: 08-02-2014 22:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't picture the celestial sphere in my mind. Can you post a image or representation of what you saw as I am a little confused?
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ErmintrudeOffline
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PostPosted: 09-02-2014 00:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

rasputin wrote:
I can't picture the celestial sphere in my mind. Can you post a image or representation of what you saw as I am a little confused?


I'll have a go at trying to reproduce what we saw. I'm describing it in a rather clumsy way, and am using technical terms such as 'zenith' perhaps incorrectly.

Rushfan62 wrote:


I am amazed at how many people I talk to who have no recollection of this! I remember going out with my brother and others when it first appeared and lying on my bed staring at it when it was at its most visible. People I speak to now don't seem to remember it, lack of interest I suppose?


The substantial collective absence of memories of the Hale-Bopp amongst many people is, in itself, verging upon the Fortean. It's almost some kind of inverse gestalt, it was an unavoidable sight yet it's somehow a non-shared experience. Perhaps it's an indication as to how infrequently people actually have any out-of-house experiences, or gap denial?
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feinmanOffline
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PostPosted: 09-02-2014 01:23    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think people are psychologically well equipped to deal with very unusual things.
There is no easy way to fit them into the matrix of experience, the paradigm of the "normal", so they are forgotten, or details aren't remembered accurately. If they are, then they can be traumatic, or even induce PTSD. I was very disoriented following my relatively minor sighting of UFOs, my mind couldn't easily fit it into my experience.
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HenryFortOffline
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PostPosted: 09-02-2014 08:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

i recall there was a lot of media at the time but only have scant recollection of the comet itself but then i was drunk through most of the late 90s
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Aarauer
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PostPosted: 09-02-2014 10:15    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could it have been a russian rocket launch? Recently in the news (somewhere) I saw a picture of of ana amazing, giant sky spiral caused by a russian rocket gone wrong, spiralling out of control.
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PostPosted: 09-02-2014 17:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been trying to picture what you saw also, Ermintrude. I'm picturing a faint glowing patch high in the northwest with "meridian lines" as would be drawn on a celestial sphere radiating outward from the patch. Except these lines were crooked like tree branches.

Three observations: 1) the "latitude and longitude" lines on the celestial sphere are an artificial coordinate system and have no more real existence than those on the earth; 2) they are a relatively recent invention - probably devised during the European age of exploration - and so were not known to the ancients; 3) from the point of view of someone on standing on the earth, at the center of the celestial sphere, the longitude lines would appear straight, not curved.

Given that the lines appeared curved, and crooked, and radiated from a more prominent central patch, it sounds to me like you saw the remnant of some kind of explosion, a starburst pattern possibly very high in the atmosphere. I dont know of any meteor or other natural phenomonon that would produce something like this. Most likely it was something related to a rocket launch or atmospheric experiment. Those sorts of activities can produce really strange and incredible sights visible for miles.
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