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Posted: 18-07-2004 15:54 Post subject:

My mum, who is an ordained Minister in the Spiritulaist Church, works as a Healer.

She and her colleagues believe that they're not the ones doing the healing, but are channeling spirit, and having witnessed her in action (so to speak) it's amazing.

She doesn't claim to cure the dying etc (as some do) or work medical miracles but she can really ease/heal pain. She simply places her hands on the subject - usually on their back, as it is more comfortable for them, and the heat that is generated by her hands has to be witnessed to be believed. It's difficult to put into words, but it genuinely helps.

She even works as a Healer at her local Hospice - they're believers in complementary therapies - whatever helps the patient works in their opinion.

I was a total sceptic when she first embarked on this, but she's been 'working' for about 7 years now, and I'm very proud of her.

Posted: 18-07-2004 18:55 Post subject:

The generation of heat seems to be a factor in this. What sort of heat is it, I wonder? Why not just put a hot water bottle on the afflicted spot?

Carole

Posted: 18-07-2004 18:59 Post subject:

I found this link, in which faith healing is described as a form of psychokinesis . . .

Carole

Posted: 18-07-2004 19:12 Post subject:

Posted: 18-07-2004 20:31 Post subject:

I have witnessed a healing, done as a demonstration. The healer's hands didn't touch the patient's body at any time, yet after the session the patient said she could feel waves of gentle heat during the session. No one else in the room felt anything, and I'm not sure how it could be measured as she said she felt the heat internally (it was like warm water,she said). Whether there was actual heat, or she felt the heat because she expected to on some level is hard to say. I saw the patient the next week and she said she had really enjoyed it as a novelty, but felt no better or worse after it,other than having had a nice lie down on the healer's couch for a few minutes.

A full on, well-funded and serious experiment into this would be fascinating.

Posted: 20-07-2004 03:06 Post subject: Peter Popoff Pops Up!

I was watching an infomercial last night for the healer Peter Popoff! He can be found peddling his wares here, where for a small fee you can purchase the Guaranteed Answered Prayer book. Last night he was offering a small sachet of Miracle Spring Water, imported from Russia, and apparently its good stuff. A tearful woman told of the miracle of her house being filled with brand new furniture (as apparently God is rather good at home furnishings, get that, Martha) and some other guy claimed he received a cool $2500 of unexpected money after receiving this miraculous liquid. Yes, there's no godlier feeling than when the Lord blesses you with a fantastic new lounge set.
Imagine my dismay upon putting my phone down when I saw this, showing Mr. Popoff to be an utter fraud who was exposed on Primetime TV by James Randi, after which he went into hiding for a few years.
But he's back folks! And smacking people on the head and healing them, just like Jesus did. And all for a mere 50K a month, because God needs money. Kinda makes you wish there was a Hell, huh?

Posted: 20-07-2004 08:15 Post subject:

I went to see a 'healing evangelist' type show years ago and was amazed at how easily fooled people are.

I was just thinking to myself, this is such tripe, it's embarrassing, we're all going to start laughing in a minute- when there was a surge of people staggering to the front and lining up to be slapped on the head. Could hardly believe my eyes.

At work later that week I didn't notice many letters from patients cancelling their treatment due to having been healed. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Public displays like that though are bound to be fraudulent. I was there out of curiousity and had no illness but nearly everyone else present had good reason to want healing to happen.

Informal, spontaneous healing is the sort that most people seem to have success with, if anecdotal evidence is to be believed.
Like in 'The Green Mile' but less spectacular!

My ex mother in law had a spell of going to church and to prayer and 'healing' groups. She's a sort of 'elective hypochondriac', ie she imagines illnesses for herself to get other people to worry about her. One time she was 'healed', which caused her a big problem- how could she bask in the glamour of being 'healed' while still commanding attention for her previous ailments? Very Happy

Posted: 21-07-2004 03:13 Post subject:

I've had a couple of experiences with this sort of thing, and I still have very mixed feelings about it all.

My first experience was with a Spiritualist church. You sit through your regular sermon, and at the end, various church member communicated with the spirits about whomever the spirits "voiced" an opinion on. I went with a friend. He fed them info, and got a very accurate reading. I just agreed with whatever they said, and they were off in left field. There was a very fertile looking couple there, and all the spirits seemed to be telling all the members that this couple were going to have lots of babies. Just by looking at them, I would have had the same thoughts, with no help from the spirits.

My second experience consists of two "Native American" pipe smoking ceremonies. I didn't doubt the fellow at first, but as I got to know him, he seemed to be on the hunt for victimized women. I know that he claimed to have studied out west with a shaman for many years. I don't know anybody who can back that claim up. The first ceremony was very pleasant. I was more open to suggestion at the time, and thought that I felt "something". What that something was, I can't say. The second ceremony consisted of basically the same group of people, only we were switched around so that different people were positioned where the spirits would enter the circle. I did not care for that experience at all. I can't honestly say why. Maybe it was the changed positions, maybe somewhere back in my mind I was starting to have doubts.

My third experience was with someone who did reiki. I wanted the experience, but didn't believe at all that this guy was going to redirect my energy, blah, blah, blah. I had several sessions, all during very warm weather. There was no physical contact, but I did get very warm during the sessions. He placed his hands over various chakras and did some chanting. What I find most interesting about these sessions is what happened afterwards. I got very, very cold. While I was sweating just moments before, suddenly I was chattering, covered with blankets, and drinking hot tea like it was January. While I can't say the purpose of the sessions, which was to help my back, actually came about, I certainly felt a very unexpected effect.

So, after saying a whole lot of nothing, I would have to say that I am open that it could happen, but I do not necessarily believe in it.

Posted: 21-07-2004 12:26 Post subject:

I was "ambushed" and healed a couple of years ago.
I was with a client and complained of a splitting headache, when he just reached out and grabbed my head without warning.
I stared to shy away as he reached out but once he touched me I was stuck to the spot! A great rush of heat went through my head and the pain just went.
No warning, no power of suggestion, no run up to it, just near instant pain relief. I asked "what the hell did you do" and he just grinned and said "nothing special".
He had never indicated in any way that he was anything other that a typical person, certainly not a preachy or new age type.

Until that happened to me I would have dissmissed it all as placebo effect. Now...................... Smile

Posted: 22-07-2004 00:53 Post subject:

Posted: 22-07-2004 14:38 Post subject:

I've read that you can raise and lower the temperature of areas of the body under hypnosis. As the body itself regulates blood circulation in order to help with temp. control, it would seem perfectly possible to tap into this control and overide it. It's been proved that with biofeedback you can learn to control your heart rate. Raising the temp. of infected or temporarily damaged tissue is probably beneficial in many cases. So you wouldn't need God, spirits or anything supernatural to bring about the effect, just an operator. Of course it wouldn't always bring about a cure though it may offer relief.
However, every-one's entitled to their own belief system so long as it gets results. Smile

Posted: 22-07-2004 15:01 Post subject:

From the Observer. It's quite long, but i think it offers good insight into How TB Joshua (previously mentioned) works. There's no fancy cars, hallelua's or gold plated alms boxes. Maybe he's the real deal?

Triumph and despair

When serious injury threatened to end his rugby career, the tough Afrikaner, Jaco van der Westhuyzen, turned to the only man who could save him: a Nigerian faith healer

Xan Rice
Sunday February 8, 2004
The Observer

Sure, I believe in miracles. I've seen them with my own eyes. From an early age I was very religious. Both my parents were Dutch Reformed Christians. But it was not until 2000 that faith healing and TB Joshua, the Nigerian they call 'the Prophet', came into my life. I had just broken into the Springbok team when I ruptured my posterior cruciate ligament playing against Western Province one Sunday in August 2000. The doctor took X-rays and said I needed to have an operation that Wednesday. I was really down, because I desperately wanted to go on the end-of-year Bok tour.
Here I must give credit to my wife. Her family are charismatic Christians, which means they stand up in church, clapping and singing. She, or rather her brother, had shown me this video of the Nigerian faith healer TB Joshua. I saw all the miracles he performed, such as curing people with HIV, freeing people from their wheelchairs, healing those with cancer. My wife said to me: 'You're pretty religious. Your faith is strong. I think you should give it a go.' I was sceptical at first and I wasn't too sure about the miracles. I read about them in the Bible but I thought: 'Can this be true?' Still, I decided not to have the operation and to take a leap of faith instead.

Our church group landed in Lagos on a Sunday. We drove for about 45 minutes before coming to a very basic church site - 10 people to a wooden bench. It was just phenomenal to see how primitive Christianity can be while at the same time remaining so powerful. At each service, there are between 10,000 and 20,000 people, mainly poor blacks. Their riches are their faith. At five o'clock in the morning, there are 3,000 people queueing outside the church gates to get the best seats.

For the first few days we had discussions with the disciples and talked about religion and its power. Then, on the Saturday, 'the Prophet' came out and delivered his message to the congregation, even though there were people in the church, scared of his powers, who wanted to kill him. It was a real eye-opener. But these doubters could not get near him. He said to us: 'There's somebody here who wants to kill me.' If the guy does not come forward, the Prophet will identify him and the person ends up confessing to what he was planning.

Towards the end of the service about 300 of us gathered in what they call the 'healing line'. The Prophet walked down the line, identifying illnesses. When he came to me, he said I should remove my leg brace. He looked at me and it was like he had x-ray vision, like he could see immediately what was wrong with my knee. Moving his hands around as if he was tugging a rope, he seemed to pull out all the dirt and other stuff that was in my knee. Then he said to me: 'Stand up and run.' The brace had been on for weeks and running should have been impossible. Well, I trusted my faith and started to run - and at full speed. There was no pain.

Back home I had another x-ray, and it showed the ligament was fine. The doctor could not believe or explain it. News of what happened started to spread and the wife of Ruben Kruger, the former Bok and Blue Bulls flanker, called me. Ruben had a brain tumour and his wife wanted me to take him to see TB Joshua. We went back to Lagos, Ruben's brain tumour was healed and he has had no more symptoms since then.

All the time, TB Joshua stressed that it was not him doing the healing, but the Holy Spirit operating through him. And we did not have to pay for anything, not even food. He even gives people money to buy plane tickets. He did that with me. Another Bulls and Bok player, the young lock Wium Basson, had developed terminal cancer and also went to see the Prophet. But he died soon after coming back to South Africa. You know, initially when I went to see TB Joshua it was for a quick fix, to make the Bok tour. Maybe Wium felt the same. I know for certain that he did not know the Lord as well as he should have at that time. If your faith is not right, the Lord will tell TB Joshua not to heal you. But Wium did make peace with God in Nigeria and that, for me, was the miracle. In going to see the Prophet, he probably saved himself from going somewhere else when he died. Luckily in South Africa religion is important; we often pray before matches. Most of my team-mates were not too sceptical about the faith healing. A few of the guys did give me some stick, teased me, but, really, I did not mind. I knew truthfully what had happened to me out there.

Back home, and I think here in Britain, too, religion can become too commercialised. Often it's not something you really believe in: it's just something that's there, that you do to make you feel good. I think it would be good for faith to play a bigger role in rugby, where there is a stigma that players are merely hard blokes without feelings.

Was it strange for a white Afrikaner to seek help from a black Nigerian faith healer? I think the older generation, such as my grandparents, would have found it very difficult to fathom. But for me a person is a person and everyone has a soul. Whether you are black, white, brown or yellow we are all the same in that respect. I never thought of TB Joshua as a lesser person than me. In fact, I envy him because he has such a deep, meaningful relationship with God.

Now I'd love to go back to Nigeria and get my spiritual batteries recharged. During the weeks we were there you could feel the presence of the Lord the whole time, even as we slept. Whenever I hit a bad patch in rugby or my life, I just think back and remember what that was like. The big thing I've learnt is that this life is just a dress rehearsal for what's to come.

The life facts

Jaco Nicolaas Boshoff van der Westhuyzen was born in Nelspruit on 6 April 1978. A boy wonder, he made his Super 12 debut at fly-half for the Natal Sharks in 1997, at the age of 19, and won an international call-up against New Zealand three years later. He has since worn the Bok jersey eight times and played at full-back against England and the All Blacks in the 2003 World Cup. Last year's South African Super 12 player of the season joined Leicester Tigers for their 2003-04 campaign.

Here's the original link:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,6903,1140742,00.html

Posted: 25-07-2004 18:37 Post subject:

I've been a bit wary of adding my experience to this thread but *oh well* here goes- warning it is a bit long.

When I was 16 I attended Meditation Classes with a small group of friends.

The classes also involved various techniques such as Aura Cleansing and various other things that I can't recall as it was 10 years ago. We did however do a group hand-holding thing that again I can't remember what the purpose was but was meant to be a relaxation thing.

I was slightly sceptical of the classes so I wasn't particularly enthusiastic, I only went because I had been asked to make up numbers, not out of any great need to learn Meditation.

I thought the "Tutor" was a walking cliche and towards the end of the session I was getting really bored.

At the end of the first session we had to do this hand-holding thing again and I found my friends had been quick about backing off towards another part of the circle so I had to hold the Tutor's hand because no one else would really go near her (she was really OTT).

This was the first time she spoke to me personally and as she held my hand she began coming out with some very personal details relating to my family. I initially thought that I may have encountered her before, then it was "Eh? how do you know this??".

I have to say that I had never met her before and I certainly had not even given her my name when we entered the room, we had just been asked to sit down and listen.

She told me that there was someone in my family who was a powerful psychic, not on my father's side but on my mother's. It wasn't my mother, it was my grandmother and that I had the gift too.

I'm really pulling a face at this and trying not to give too much away as my grandmother had been involved in the Spiritualist Church and had been reputed to have been a very powerful Medium but it was something I had never had much dealings with and never experienced myself.

She then went on (still holding my hand) that I was a "healer" and would I put my hand on her neck?

I cannot stress enough that at this point I was desperately trying to get my hand back and I was mouthing "Help" at my friends who were sitting laughing at me.

In the end, in an effort to get it over and done with I agreed to place my hand on her neck. She explained that she had a mole on her neck that had become some form of skin cancer/melanoma
that had returned after numerous attempts at cutting it out under local anaesthetic and various other treatments.

She then pulled the neck of her t-shirt down and removed a plaster that had been covering this melanoma. It was pretty gruesome, black, crusty and again I was pretty much cringing and desperately wanting to get out of the room.

She told me to place my left hand over the mole/melanoma and try and focus/visualise healing power coming from my hand.

I was visualising nothing, the only thing going through my head was "I can't believe I'm doing this" and "This is gross" but:

I definitely felt the palm of my hand become warmer until it was a lot warmer than body temperature. It was centralised to my palm- I didn't feel it in my fingers or near to my wrist.

After 5 minutes she told me that I had finished healing her and thanked me.

I was stood there saying "Is that it then?" and apparently it was.

I returned to the class the following week (it was free, I didn't have to pay anything towards it and I was intrigued by this experience).

As soon as my friends and I walked in the room she called over to us and said something along the lines of "It's going!" meaning this mole/melanoma. She then pulled back the plaster covering it and I had to agree that it was definitely a lighter colour than it had been before.

The week after this, a similar situation happened, we were walking in when she called us over again and showed me her neck. Again it certainly looked "healthier" than it did the first day we met her.

After a number of weeks and reports on its condition, we went back and found that she no longer had to wear a plaster to cover it (she did this because of the size of the crusty scab and it would also catch on her clothing and bleed). In the end the mole returned back to "normal" and the skin that had been covered by the scab cleared.

My friends began calling me Carrie and it took years to live down.

She insisted that I had healed her yet I didn't particularly *believe*.

I imagine there are quite a few reasons that the woman's neck healed whether it was my doing, I don't know.

Posted: 25-07-2004 18:47 Post subject:

Interesting story, Quixote - again there's that mysterious 'heat' being experienced . . .

BTW, have you tried 'healing' anyone else since then?

Carole

Posted: 25-07-2004 18:57 Post subject:

Never *formally* like that. Although before this I was always in demand from my family if anyone needed a massage or back rub.*

That sounds daft or possibly scandalous...

but my dad who suffered with a bad back always said he felt better if I rubbed his back with liniment or Tiger Balm than my mother. The same applied to my friends.

My friend who is a martial arts instructor showed me some books on certain healing techniques that involved the placing of hands and postioning chi/qi? I truly can't remember but he tried to explain to me that it was a similar experience. I'll have to grill him next time I see him and get some details.

edit-* I have to add but not in demand for healing... the experience with the Meditation Tutor was the one and only time.