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Ireland - North & South: The Aftermath
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tang-malow
PostPosted: 20-04-2002 19:15    Post subject: Top Tories named on IRA hit list Reply with quote

Quote:
AN IRA file containing the addresses of Conservative MPs has been found by police in Northern Ireland, fuelling fears that the terrorists are preparing for a resumption of violence.


http://thescotsman.co.uk/index.cfm?id=421452002
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garrick92Offline
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PostPosted: 20-04-2002 19:23    Post subject: An odd one, this ... Reply with quote

Most perk-yewlier.

I mean, the Tories have been out of office for 7 years, [EDIT: No, it's *five* years, I just can't count!], and the IRA's NI ceasefire has held (more or less) since summer '97, too ... what's this all about?

My guess is that it's the spooks and cops trying to make themselves look important, after they were caught napping at Castlereagh. Old documents, old names, old plans ...

But weren't the Force Research Unit implicated in the Castlereagh raid?


FRU? Who they? Well, this they.

I really don't have the patience for delving far into this one: the murky world of Northern Ireland is enough to give anyone's arse a headache! -- and yet that's where the greater part of British skulduggery has happened, is happening, will happen.


Last edited by garrick92 on 20-04-2002 21:09; edited 1 time in total
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stunevilleOffline
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PostPosted: 21-04-2002 08:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thing is, we don't know whether the names are those of the last tory cabinet, 5 years ago, or of the current crop as the tory front bench is, with one or two exceptions, completely different from the one that last held office.

So the data is either

  • five years out of date
  • or showing a strange tactic, ie aiming for people not in power


Ideas?
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garrick92Offline
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PostPosted: 21-04-2002 11:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stu Neville wrote:

five years out of date


Gets my vote. I reckon this is old news. There hasn't been an attempt to 'get' a cabinet minister since 1994. There's been no general alert for Tories. No-one has commented on it.

This is just the British return-volley in a propaganda tennis-match.
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simonsmith
PostPosted: 21-04-2002 18:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

The point is that they (the Provisionals) would continue to collect intelligence since their analysis would demand that. Surrender for them is not an option. Many within their ranks would not remain on-side if the organisation was seen to have relaxed. Again.

Nor, I think, would the British or Irish governments want the Provisionals to surrender or entirely disband since it would leave a dangerous void. A ceasefire is preferable.

Of course the PIRA continue to gather information. Just as the various British government bodies and assorted factions continue to gather information about Republicans.

Threat is averted by keeping the peace process alive - and by ensuring that it is seen to be an honourable and legitimate political process. Whilst all sides remain vigilant.

I wonder why we have been told that evidence has been found showing that information has been gathered about various politicians. Information about criminal investigations is not normally leaked. Who benefits? Possibly, even, the moderate Republican leadership, in a strange way.

It's a dance.
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SpookdaddyOffline
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PostPosted: 21-04-2002 19:07    Post subject: Reply with quote

garrick92 wrote:

...the Tories have been out of office for 7 years, [EDIT: No, it's *five* years, I just can't count!], and the IRA's NI ceasefire has held (more or less) since summer '97, too ... what's this all about?


Simon has hit the nail on the head.

Around the time of the 1974-75 ceasefire, which lasted for about six months, the IRA found themselves about as close to outright defeat as they have ever been. At least part of this was down to the fact that while, to a certain extent, the IRA and British forces on the ground stood down, the British intelligence establishment actually cranked up a gear. Doesn’t it kind of makes sense that intelligence is easier to gather when people are less on their guard? Afterwards there was a sense within the IRA leadership that while the Brits treated the ceasefire as an opportunity the IRA had allowed itself to run down, to get rusty and according to the most self-critical, to go on holiday.

Post 1975 the IRA have always regarded ceasefires as being of a far greater tactical benefit to the British than themselves and I suspect are paranoid about being caught off guard again.

It would be extremely naive to believe that the IRA would end intelligence gathering on the establishment of a ceasefire and I suspect that most people working in British Intelligence do not believe that a list of opposition politicians constitutes a serious indication that the IRA is about to resume hostilities.
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garrick92Offline
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PostPosted: 21-04-2002 19:23    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spook wrote:

It would be extremely naive to believe that the IRA would end intelligence gathering on the establishment of a ceasefire and I suspect that most people working in British Intelligence do not believe that a list of opposition politicians constitutes a serious indication that the IRA is about to resume hostilities.


Which is precisely why I reckon this is old stuff.

Attack the government by killing the opposition? Yeah, and then you wake up!
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 21-04-2002 19:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Times concurs that this is old information but an even more disturbing story comes from the Telegraph here. which suggests as the IRA are decommisioning, they're rearming, thereby modernising their arsenal and reducing the act of decommissioning from slightly meaningless to totally meaningless.
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garrick92Offline
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PostPosted: 21-04-2002 19:48    Post subject: Interrrrrestink. Reply with quote

Is it just me, or does this smell like a plant? The Sunday Telegraph is known as the country's biggest conduit for deliberate intelligence leaks.

A little exploration, and lo and behold ...

Quote:
The [alleged arms] deal was detected by the Russian security services, which passed details to British military intelligence in London. Cabinet ministers were briefed on it, along with senior Northern Ireland politicians.

Details remained secret, however, until being disclosed to The Telegraph by military intelligence officers in London last week.


So: 'it came from a spook, and they said it came from a Russian spook, so it must be true'. Righty-ho. It might well be true, but the fact that only the Sunday Telegraph is saying so makes me doubt it very much indeed.

And, despite the fact that 'old news' is the only possible way to explain the cobwebby "Tory hitlist", we find the claim that this 'news' comes
Quote:
"days after the discovery of an updated IRA "hit list" containing the addresses of leading Tory MPs"


"Updated"? The names on it even according to the Sunday Bellylaugh's own report include John Major and, er, Norman Lamont. Wow. Oh, and Iain Duncan Smiff, who used to be in Major's cabinet, funnily enough.

"Updated"? Only if you think it's still 1989!


Last edited by garrick92 on 21-04-2002 20:03; edited 1 time in total
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 21-04-2002 19:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe there are some elections on the way soon, possibly in the Republic if memory serves. Wink
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garrick92Offline
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PostPosted: 21-04-2002 20:16    Post subject: Odder and odder ... or not. Reply with quote

From DD's link to 'The Times' earlier:

Quote:
A Conservative party source said of the hit list: "It largely consisted of people who had been active in the 1990s. It was an old list but it had been updated recently. For instance, Iain Duncan Smith was not on it."


So: an updated out-of-date list which contained the name of Iain Duncan Smiff or didn't, depending on who's telling you ...

... Where could all these rumours be coming from?
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simonsmith
PostPosted: 21-04-2002 20:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The Sunday Telegraph is known as the country's biggest conduit for deliberate intelligence leaks.
Thus also a good way of leaking information to hardline Republicans which would convince them that the PIRA has not surrendered and remains active. Telegraph editorial anger would help to keep them on-side.

As I said: it's a dance. Leaking to the Telegraph would be a classic double bluff.

Quote:
(as) the IRA are decommisioning, they're rearming, thereby modernising their arsenal and reducing the act of decommissioning from slightly meaningless to totally meaningless.


All that matters is whether the stuff is used.


Last edited by Guest on 21-04-2002 20:35; edited 1 time in total
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BreakfastologistOffline
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PostPosted: 23-04-2002 13:01    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, they count the Conservative party and the likes of the Reverend Iain Paisley as their enemies? Perhaps they are just trying to improve their public profile by threatening people who everyone hates.
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 23-04-2002 14:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

Breakfast wrote:

So, they count the Conservative party and the likes of the Reverend Iain Paisley as their enemies? Perhaps they are just trying to improve their public profile by threatening people who everyone hates.

Nah, Ian Paisley is the best recruitment sergant that the provos have ever had.

I agree with Mr/Ms Garrick, I think the FRU are up to their old tricks, especially as the planned RUC reform may throw up some old files/bodies.
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 09-05-2002 02:44    Post subject: IRA-types found on my hit list Reply with quote

Quote:

Police were bracing the country for a fresh wave of violence today, as IRA-types were found on MuscularSpasm's hit list.

"We're very concerned" said a top police-guy. "MuscularSpasm's possibly the hardest bloke in the country. I don't think we've got the manpower to deal with this threat to order".

We contacted MuscularSpasm, using a PGP-encrypted IRC relay, and we got this amazing response. "Haha, the IRA can't bomb any more, coz the Americans would see them for what they really are since 9/11, haha". He continued, "I could just stand there and poke them and punch them and stuff, and they couldn't do anything, coz they're just a bunch of pussies looking to flog semtex."

We contacted our friendly neighbourhood munitions supply, round the back of Camden Market, and asked for his opinion. "Oh it's bloody awful. I got near-on 700 Kilo of plastic explosives, and I can't get rid of the stuff. The IRA are dropping it on the market like they've got the runs or something. I've got an application in for an EU subsidy".

We tried to contact the IRA, but they were unavailable. The message on their answering machine said they were on a working holiday in Gaza.
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