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Posted: 17-03-2005 18:42 Post subject:

Yes, Sifaka, that was it, thankyou. Apparently Philip requested Edward II of England to put the Templars here to ' the Question ' and recieved a very half hearted response from him, you would probably know more than I, until I dig the book out.

Posted: 17-03-2005 21:44 Post subject:

Scotland however was already excommunicated, Robert the Bruce already shown his disregard of Papal power by murdering his rivil while he was in church. I think they actually gained lands up here instead of being persecuted en masse.

Posted: 18-03-2005 09:28 Post subject:

Posted: 18-03-2005 12:16 Post subject:

Well there were quite a few questionable circumstances in relation to the Templars in Ireland, England and Scotland.

It is thought that the Templar headquarters in Ireland, Contarf Castle Near Dublin City, had its armoury emptied to route to Scotland. When finally sezied bu Crown Authorities, the armoury of Contarf contained nothing but a couple of rusted spear heads with broken and rotten shafts.

I too am intrigued by supposed Templar Intervention with Bruce and would very much like to see some evidence. Cicrumstancially the case is good. The St. Clairs were among the most influential Templar families and their grants prvided one of the leargest Templar encampments outside of France and Outremer. So it would seem logical that fleeing Templars would go there where they would be beyond secular and Inquisitorial power.

LD

Posted: 18-03-2005 12:34 Post subject:

Yes, it was heavily suggested in the book I read, that many did go to Scotland, but there was, they said, not proof, but it made a very good case. And what did happen to the Templar Fleet which apparently ' vanished '? ( It may be back here in the thread somewhere, but I don't have time to look back )

Posted: 18-03-2005 16:52 Post subject:

Posted: 18-03-2005 18:29 Post subject:

Thanking you for that link! Smile

Posted: 04-02-2006 05:52 Post subject:

The Grail Academy has opened its doors.

Posted: 05-10-2007 07:26 Post subject:

Vatican paper set to clear Knights Templar
By Malcolm Moore in Rome
Last Updated: 2:08am BST 05/10/2007

The mysteries of the Order of the Knights Templar could soon be laid bare after the Vatican announced the release of a crucial document which has not been seen for almost 700 years.

Guardians of the Grail
A new book, Processus contra Templarios, will be published by the Vatican's Secret Archive on Oct 25, and promises to restore the reputation of the Templars, whose leaders were burned as heretics when the order was dissolved in 1314.

The Knights Templar were a powerful and secretive group of warrior monks during the Middle Ages. Their secrecy has given birth to endless legends, including one that they guard the Holy Grail.

Recently, they have been featured in films including The Da Vinci Code and Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.

The Order was founded by Hugues de Payns, a French knight, after the First Crusade of 1099 to protect pilgrims on the road to Jerusalem. Its headquarters was the captured Al-Aqsa mosque on the Temple Mount, which lent the Templars their name.

But when Jerusalem fell to Muslim rule in 1244, rumours surfaced that the knights were heretics who worshipped idols in a secret initiation ceremony.

In 1307, King Philip IV "the Fair" of France, in desperate need of funds, ordered the arrest and torture of all Templars. After confessing various sins their leader, Jacques de Molay, was burnt at the stake.

Pope Clement V then dissolved the order and issued arrest warrants for all remaining members. Ever since, the Templars have been thought of as heretics.

The new book is based on a scrap of parchment discovered in the Vatican's secret archives in 2001 by Professor Barbara Frale. The long-lost document is a record of the trial of the Templars before Pope Clement, and ends with a papal absolution from all heresies.

Prof Frale said: "I could not believe it when I found it. The paper was put in the wrong archive in the 17th century."

The document, known as the Chinon parchment, reveals that the Templars had an initiation ceremony which involved "spitting on the cross", "denying Jesus" and kissing the lower back, navel and mouth of the man proposing them.

The Templars explained to Pope Clement that the initiation mimicked the humiliation that knights could suffer if they fell into the hands of the Saracens, while the kissing ceremony was a sign of their total obedience.

The Pope concluded that the entrance ritual was not truly blasphemous, as alleged by King Philip when he had the knights arrested. However, he was forced to dissolve the Order to keep peace with France and prevent a schism in the church.

"This is proof that the Templars were not heretics," said Prof Frale. "The Pope was obliged to ask pardon from the knights.

"For 700 years we have believed that the Templars died as cursed men, and this absolves them."

http://tinyurl.com/2w2v8m

Posted: 10-10-2007 04:16 Post subject:

Posted: 19-10-2007 12:30 Post subject:

And a bit more via the BBC

Posted: 04-08-2008 07:43 Post subject:

Knights Templar heirs in legal battle with the Pope
The heirs of the Knights Templar have launched a legal battle in Spain to force the Pope to restore the reputation of the disgraced order which was accused of heresy and dissolved seven centuries ago.
By Fiona Govan, Madrid Correspondent
Last Updated: 1:55AM BST 04 Aug 2008

The Association of the Sovereign Order of the Temple of Christ, whose members claim to be descended from the legendary crusaders, have filed a lawsuit against Benedict XVI calling for him to recognise the seizure of assets worth 100 billion euros (£79 billion).

They claim that when the order was dissolved by his predecessor Pope Clement V in 1307, more than 9,000 properties as well as countless pastures, mills and other commercial ventures belonging to the knights were appropriated by the church.

But their motive is not to reclaim damages only to restore the "good name" of the Knights Templar.

"We are not trying to cause the economic collapse of the Roman Catholic Church, but to illustrate to the court the magnitude of the plot against our Order," said a statement issued by the self-proclaimed modern day knights.

The Templars was a powerful secretive group of warrior monks founded by French knight Hugues de Payens after the First Crusade of 1099 to protect pilgrims en route to Jerusalem.

They amassed enormous wealth and helped to finance wars waged by European monarchs, but spectacularly fell from grace after the Muslims reconquered the Holy Land in 1244 and rumours surfaced of their heretic practices.

The Knights were accused of denying Jesus, worshipping icons of the devil in secret initiation ceremonies, and practising sodomy.

Many Templars confessed to their crimes under torture and some, including the Grand Master Jacques de Molay, were burned at the stake.

The legal move by the Spanish group comes follows the unprecedented step by the Vatican towards the rehabilitation of the group when last October it released copies of parchments recording the trials of the Knights between 1307 and 1312.

The papers lay hidden for more than three centuries having been "misfiled" within papal archives until they were discovered by an academic in 2001.

The Chinon parchment revealed that, contrary to historic belief, Clement V had declared the Templars were not heretics but disbanded the order anyway to maintain peace with their accuser, King Philip IV of France.

Over the centuries, various groups have claimed to be descended from the Templars and legend abounds over hidden treasures, secret rituals, and their rumoured guardianship of the Holy Grail.

Most recently the knights have fascinated the modern generation after being featured in the film Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade and Dan Brown's novel The Da Vinci Code.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/2495343/Knights-Templar-heirs-in-legal-battle-with-the-Pope.html

Posted: 04-08-2008 15:34 Post subject:

"But their motive is not to reclaim damages only to restore the "good name" of the Knights Templar."

Well it's a good name to remember if you want to join a gang of penniless, ass-kissing, cross-spitting blokes. Confused

Posted: 28-10-2009 12:18 Post subject:

'Pac-Man' markings create new mystery at former stronghold of Knights Templar
Mike Wade

In a scene worthy of the opening of Dan Brown’s next bestselling novel, workmen renovating a garden wall have stumbled on two mysteriously carved gravestones at the site of the former stronghold of the Knights Templar in Scotland.

The ancient stones were unearthed under a gateway leading from a ruined medieval church to the adjoining manse in the village of Temple, Midlothian. One, believed to be of 10th-century origin, is marked with a simple early Christian cross. The second appears to be from a later era and is decorated in a much more puzzling style.

Possibly carved for a knight, it features a braided cross, a sword and a shield, which is marked with strange shapes in the style of “Pac-Man”. Wary locals note that the markings bear a striking resemblance to the characters in the 1970s arcade game and fear that they may lead to UFO enthusiasts arriving in the village en masse.

The location of the stones lends the discovery a further piquancy. Seven miles (11 kilometres) away lies Rosslyn Chapel, the astonishingly ornate church made famous in Mr Brown’s thriller The Da Vinci Code. Legend has it that the Holy Grail is hidden in its secret vaults.

Local archaeologists are reluctant to stir these increasingly fantastical myths, but they are intrigued by the discovery of the stones. After the intervention of Midlothian Council and the government agency Historic Scotland the stones are being analysed by an archaeological consultancy which is expected to report in the new year.

David Connolly, who runs the British Archaeology Jobs and Resources website from nearby Haddington, said that although many of the symbols of the larger and later stones were easy to explain, the “Pac-Men” were more unusual. “It is hard to be certain what those symbols are,” he said. “It might be sheep shears, or they could be hawking bells, the kinds of things that might be attached to a falcon. They could even be a made-up piece of heraldry.”

The other carvings make seemingly obvious allusions to the status of the departed, but even these images could be misleading.

The symbol of a sword on a tombstone is often taken to represent a knight, but it is very difficult to distinguish a Templar from a knight of another order, or from someone else entirely. “It might just have been a wealthy local landowner with enough money to afford a decent burial,” Mr Connolly said.

The legends surrounding the Knights Templar do little to unravel these new mysteries of Midlothian.

Founded in France, but dispersed across Europe, the order’s charitable works made it rich. Its downfall came after the Templars refused to finance a crusade to the Holy Land proposed by Philip IV of France. He responded with a raft of trumped-up charges against the Templars, including heresy, sodomy and the kissing of goats, and on Friday, 13 October, 1307 most of the French order were jailed, tortured and killed and their property seized.

Though Philip’s actions were endorsed by the Vatican, on the other side of the English Channel the Templars were often spared jail or death. But even in Scotland, where the order had been based at Temple in the 13th century, property was forfeit. Their preceptory, complete with its cloisters, church, kitchens, outhouses and graveyard, passed to the Knights Hospitallers, which makes the identification of the tombstones even more difficult.

Seven hundred years later Temple is a potential goldmine for amateur and professional archaeologists. Crispin Phillips, 62, who has owned the 17th-century manse for more than 20 years, is well aware of the significance of the land that it stands on. Teams of archaeologists have already surveyed his garden and discovered three bodies hunched in lead coffins, similar to a find at nearby Soutra Aisle, a medieval hospital.

Mr Phillips said that he had been present when the tombstones were discovered this year.

“We found them under two steps, almost one on top of another. At first I thought that it was just a joke,” he said. “I feel like Indiana Jones in his dotage.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article6893161.ece