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Posted: 29-09-2001 01:05 Post subject: Buried Spitfires and Hitler's Gold

Has anyone else ever come across the following couple of WWII stories? Both were relayed to me by my Dad and I haven't come across anything similar in the UK.

Apparently, my Grandad used to tell stories of how at the end of WWII, a whole bunch of Spitfires which had just rolled off the production line were put in storage as the war had ended, suggesting there's an underground hangar somewhere in the Midlands stuffed with unused planes. I find it hard to believe that any dedicated historians haven't sought to dig them up, as surely it would be documented, and I wonder why they were put away rather than put to use - maybe the death toll was such that there were not enough people to fly them? I'd be interested if any similar stories have been reported - my Grandad used to live in the Tamworth area nr. Birmingham which must be the approximate location for him to know about it. On the other hand, it could just be another FOAF story...

The second story is that my Dad used to work with a man who claimed to be in a secret British military unit that was tasked with following the trail of "Hitler's Gold" at the end of the war. Apparently the trail was followed all the way to North Africa before it was lost, and never found again. Again, it could be BS, or chasing shadows as much has turned up in Swiss bank accounts. Seeing a documentary the other week about how a group of Nazi officers sank a chest of mysterious papers in a remote Austrian lake as the Allies closed in reminded me of the story... anyone else heard anything like this...?

Posted: 29-09-2001 13:43 Post subject:

Nazi plunder tales are not all mythical, even when they sound
way out. There is a tale of a fabulously ornamented room,
called "The Crystal Room" or something similar which had been
plundered from Russia in sections and was reputed to have been
stored in a French? mine at the end of the war. Another version
of its fate suggested that it had been sunk in transit??

Sorry my memory of the details may be vague but I think there
is a story along these lines. Has anyone got an accurate version?

I saw it on television about four or five years ago. Some sort of
true story lies behind it and I think the room may have
belonged to Catherine the Great. confused

Posted: 29-09-2001 14:51 Post subject:

That would be The Amber Room - unsurprisingly, it was a room lined with panels of amber.
I think this covers the background, but i've no idea if anything turned up subsequently. I thought it had, but can't find any supporting references.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/europe/newsid_143000/143364.stm

Posted: 29-09-2001 19:32 Post subject: Buried Spitfires

'Forgotten military equipment' seems to be a common theme for urban legends.

As a motorcycle-mad teenager in the 1960s I repeatedly heard rumours that the Canadian government had discovered large numbers of military-model Harley-Davidsons, bought during World War II and never used. These were to be sold for a pittance - $50 was the most commonly heard figure. Of course, no one ever had any details about where or when the sale would be held.

I seem to recall in a recent issue of FT there was a story (or letter?) about rumours of Spitfires stored in Australia against the threat of Japanese invasion, but never used and eventually forgotten.

Posted: 29-09-2001 19:48 Post subject:

You're right, in issues 135 and 140 there are letters about stored military equipment, but these deal solely with Australia. The guy who responded to the initial letter suggests lost military equipment in Australia is quite likely as at the time large areas of Oz were not accurately mapped, and Spitfires were not particularly suited to the climate or a match for Japanese fighters.
However, I haven't heard a similar story relating to the UK, where it would be far more difficult to hide an underground hangar chock full of planes waiting to be discovered.

Posted: 29-09-2001 23:14 Post subject: Sherman Tanks

Really bizarre - I remember an old tale from Stockton on Tees about a number of Sherman Tanks that were buried under a huge slag heap near to an iron and steel reclamation plant in the Oxbridge part of the town! I always wondered why they didn't just melt these things down for scrap or simply use them - there were severe shortages of all raw materials after WWII, plus a new (Cold) war in the offing - so wouldn't it make sense to do this?

Mind you, they did dump lots and lots of surplus stuff out to sea.

Posted: 29-09-2001 23:45 Post subject:

If anyone's interested, this is the story that reminded me of the above:

http://www.usatoday.com/life/lds020.htm

Posted: 30-09-2001 09:31 Post subject: War-time military equipment

Does anyone here remember the delicious April 1st spoof that appeared in the Daily Telegraph magazine some years ago?

It was an article of several pages, complete with colour photographs, of a Barrage Balloon unit that was still operating in Northern Scotland decades after the end of the war!

According to the story, the unit, originally in southern England, received orders to move to a new location, but someone got the grid references the wrong way round and they relocated to Scotland. Somehow the unit managed to keep itself functioning and receiving wages by various ruses, and the men married into the local community. The 'story' only came to light when the aged balloon cable finally broke, and an airline pilot reported the balloon drifting out over the Atlantic!

The story was told with all the usual Telegraph gravitas. I think it deserves a place in some Fortean Hall of Fame!

Posted: 30-09-2001 15:28 Post subject:

A junior officer on my ship once told me a story I heard often in the 60's and 70's.His brother was an Army officer stationed in southern Bavaria,and told stories of bunkers under guard in the mountains full of captured rifles,machine guns,and literally tons of old Third Reich military equipment being stockpiled in case of a Russian invasion.I find this highly likely as there is a large amount of Russian surplus and some some Russian captured German equipment on the collector's market here in the States now.

Posted: 01-10-2001 00:45 Post subject: Re: Sherman Tanks

Posted: 01-10-2001 09:08 Post subject:

Usual Urban legend stuff - grandparents, uncles, all foaf stuff really.

Completly unsubstantiated, of course.

Posted: 01-10-2001 10:40 Post subject:

I've heard that many aircraft were dumped in the Moray Firth at the end of the second world war - by then jets were appearing on the scene and they were outdated and surplus to requirements.

In America many aircraft were actually sold to the pilots which is why so many of them are still around today (they used them for racing). But here in Britain they were scrapped.

Posted: 09-10-2001 13:29 Post subject:

Im from inverness, which sits where the river ness joins the moray firth and ive never heard this one. Seems unlikely to me as i dont think the moray firths that deep and surely bits would get washed up. When i was about 6 or 7 there was a downed Wellington bomber found in the depths of Loch Ness which was quite exciting. But thats as far as dumped military equipment goes that ive heard of.

Posted: 09-10-2001 20:22 Post subject:

for Natzi gold legend see Illuminatus trillogy, big bit of it is about Lake Topplitiz(Selling?) where somthing was dumped at the wars end....... these are some surplus equipment stories i have heard.. Brighton sea front developed a hole from a storm after the war and Harley Davidsons were used to fill it before concreating over it to make the road....In this area (Falmouth) huge amounts of equipment was made ready for D-day and all over the place u still find enegmatic torpedo shaped tings about 8 ft long and a foot -ish diameter. These are populary known as auxilury Mustang fuel drop tanks (tho tey dont have any fittings on them) They are made of what apears to be glass fiber but are side to be some mixture of paper mache!...There are some huge cocncreat barges in the estry ex-fres water barges for d-day(?)
And the bay is said to be liberaly littered (all be it under a lot of sea) with Sherman tanks and lorries and jeeps. The story is that loaded ships would try the vehicles to see if they started and if they didnt they went over the side!...

Posted: 09-10-2001 20:56 Post subject:

Let's face it, the Nazis looted just about everything they could lay their little Aryan mitts on! Art treasures, gold, French wine . . . there's bound to be many tales of treasure troves hidden away. When my husband worked in Libya, there were tales of old Afrika Corps tanks, etc, turning up from time to time in the desert.

Carole