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The Lindbergh Baby?
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rynner
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PostPosted: 02-03-2003 19:15    Post subject: The Lindbergh Baby? Reply with quote

Article here:
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Special: Who Committed The Crime Of The Century?
Posted: 2:27 p.m. EST February 27, 2003
Updated: 8:43 a.m. EST February 28, 2003

An exclusive Problem Solvers investigation found new possible evidence connected with an Orlando man's claim that he is linked to one of America's greatest unsolved mysteries.

The Lindbergh kidnapping remains shrouded in mystery today, 70 years after the crime. But Robert Aldinger may have new clues in the case, according to Local 6 News.

Aldinger is convinced that the men and women he knew as his family are connected to the kidnapping of Charles Lindbergh Jr. And, Aldinger believes that he may be Charles Lindbergh. Jr.

Problem Solver Mike Holfeld reported that Aldinger's theory hinges on two factors; his unexplained life in a Brooklyn orphanage and his family's relationship with Bruno Richard Hauptmann.

Hauptmann was the prime suspect in the 1932 crime of the century.

"I haven't seen anybody with a connection to the case but me," Aldinger said. "I know that the people who are responsible to what happened to me are all dead and the people that are alive are innocent."

Our investigation confirmed that Aldinger's grandmother, Lena Knaus Aldinger was Hauptmann's mentor in the early 1920s.

She taught the German immigrant to read and write English, according to the report.

In fact, Lena Aldinger was so close to Hauptmann that after interrogating her after the kidnapping, a New Jersey State Police officer wrote, "If she did know of anything which would tend to further incriminate Hauptmann she would not reveal it.

Did Bob Aldinger's family back Hauptmann in the Lindbergh kidnapping, Holfeld asked?

"I am convinced until someone proves me wrong and I would be very surprised if I were proven wrong," Aldinger said.

Aldinger's theory assumes that there was a plot to swap the real Robert Aldinger with the Lindbergh baby.

However, the DNA profiles offer a split conclusion to the theory.

Aldinger's DNA does not match his father's side of the family.

However, there is a 94 percent probably match on his mother's side Nancy Clarke Aldinger.

Local 6 News reported that experts agree that the possibility of Bruno Hauptmann working as part of a kidnap team does make sense.

Local 6 News may have uncovered a message that reportedly proves that Hauptmann did not act alone in the crime.

Holfeld found forgotten artifacts of the Lindbergh case during a trip to New Jersey in the state police evidence warehouse.

Among those artifacts was a piece of wood that appears to come from a small table.

Holfeld reported that a message on the wood and its placement on the wood could change history.

"Those holes are indeed absolutely important to linking this information to the kidnapping of the Lindbergh baby," Dr. Nancy Decker said.

Holfeld asked, "So we're looking at a legitimate confession?"

"We do," Decker said.

Local 6 New will continue the investigation Thursday night at 11 p.m..
(Video link and a Poll also with article.)
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QuetzelcoatlOffline
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PostPosted: 03-03-2003 16:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

there are some belting conspiracy theories surrounding the Lindberg baby including an Afro-American woman from Trenton who claimed she was the baby and had been forced to undergo a sex change and skin dye.

Lindberg, a noted anti-Semite, was admired by Right Wingers and some will have it the baby was kidnapped to discredit him.

This loon links the Luciferian Masonic Conspiracy and New World Order to Lindberg, the Apollo Programme and the Kennedy’s.

Quote:
[B]“Examining this "13" line, one sees that it passes near Kitty Hawk, NC, the site of the Wright brothers' first flight. Later on, in 1932, the world-famous aviator, Col. Charles A. Lindbergh, searched for his kidnapped baby son along this "13" line southwest of Martha's Vineyard, close to No Mans Land (Mason Land).

As CLuM luck would have it, the Lindbergh family's original name back in Sweden was Mansson, another Baconian cypher for "No Mans". There is good reason to believe that the real grandfather of Col. Lindbergh was the Crown Prince of Sweden and later King Charles XV. Members of the Swedish royal family are prominent patrons of Masonry and the royal family itself is associated with the so-called Luciferian bloodline connected to the "Priory of Zion".

Therefore, it seems that the Lindbergh baby, a likely Luciferian descendant, was offered as a "thanksgiving" sacrifice to Lucifer/Satan for the aviation successes of the Wright brothers and his father, Charley Mansson, a.k.a. Col. Charles A. Lindbergh. As CLuM luck would have it, the Luciferian FBI announced last Thursday, July 22, that it was finally releasing its files on the Lindbergh kidnapping to the National Archives. That was on the exact same day as the JFK, Jr., burial at sea close to the "13" line”


Question: How rich are the Lindberg descendants today?

and what are the chances of this claimant getting their DNA?
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 03-03-2003 17:20    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wasn't there a theory last year that Lingburgh had unintentionally killed the baby himself. It was suggested that he was a bit of a brute who ill treated his son (ie throwing about, letting him scream himself sick when upset) in the mis-guided notion that it would make the poor babe more of a 'man'...
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PostPosted: 03-03-2003 17:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

This site sets out to prove that Hauptmann was either innocent, or at the very least not acting alone.



Quote:
Aldinger's theory assumes that there was a plot to swap the real Robert Aldinger with the Lindbergh baby.


I don't really understand this - why would the kidnapper(s) want to do this? If the story is true, then what happened to the real Aldinger?

The fact that Aldinger's DNA test apparently show that the man he called his father was not his biological father proves nothing (I'm sure it's happened to more than a few people!). The pesky little cynic in me suspects that he may be after money and/or fame...

Jane.
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rynner
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PostPosted: 03-03-2003 18:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blueswidow wrote:

Wasn't there a theory last year that Lingburgh had unintentionally killed the baby himself.


The site linked to in Mejane's post seems essential reading for anyone interested in this case.
Quote:
On May 12, 1932 the child's decomposed body, lying in a shallow grave only two miles (walking distance) from his home, was found by a truck driver. The baby had been dead since the night of his disappearance. Lindbergh, in command of the entire investigation from its inception, ordered an immediate cremation. No legitimate autopsy was ever performed. There is no corpse to exhume for forensic testing.

Lindbergh scattered the ashes of his firstborn child out of an airplane in August 1932 and a long line of "real Lindbergh babies" have staked their claim for a share in the Lindbergh fortune ever since.
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QuetzelcoatlOffline
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PostPosted: 04-03-2003 09:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

mejane wrote:

This site sets out to prove that Hauptmann was either innocent, or at the very least not acting alone.


I've not read a single piece claiming Hauptman was guilty. Everyone inc. ex-FBI, ex-Detectives and the excellent BBC documentary a few years back, state that he went to his death proclaiming his innocece.

do a Google on his name if youre interested, but for me, the clincher is that he was offered a deal commuting his death penalty to life inprisonment if he would confess.

he refused.

Quote:
[B]I don't really understand this - why would the kidnapper(s) want to do this? If the story is true, then what happened to the real Aldinger?


real kidnappers wouldnt, since the motive was clearly money.

there are a few conspiracy theories right out of Planet Janet claiming a substitution was planned with a Jewish baby to discredit the right wing anti-semite pro-German Lindberg family a generation down the line.

the same people tend to quote 12' lizards as being behind the plot.

if this theory is to be believed, then the Aldinger baby ended up in the ditch and the Lindberg baby could still be alive?
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 04-03-2003 19:09    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blueswidow wrote:

Wasn't there a theory last year that Lingburgh had unintentionally killed the baby himself. It was suggested that he was a bit of a brute who ill treated his son (ie throwing about, letting him scream himself sick when upset) in the mis-guided notion that it would make the poor babe more of a 'man'...

I heard that one as well. Apparently, he also liked playing practical jokes, had done the 'kidnapping' himself for a joke but had dropped the child as he was climbing down the ladder - the autopsy showed that the kid died from a skull fracture that could be consistent with hitting a ladder rung.
It actually sounds the most plausible of all the theories - no wonder he 'took charge' of the investigation.
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PostPosted: 05-03-2003 00:47    Post subject: Reply with quote

ethelred wrote:

I've not read a single piece claiming Hauptman was guilty.



Sorry, but there's too much circumstantial evidence to say that Hauptmann was innocent. 1) The ransom money was found in his garage, though he actually said it belonged to a dead business associate. 2) He quit his job the very same day the ransom money was delivered. 3) When he lived in Germany, he was convicted of burglary--where he used a ladder to break into a second floor window. That's entirely too much coincidence for me.

Some of the other evidence is a little dicier, and it would not suprise me if some if it was planted, like the ladder rung.

The suicide of the Lindbergh's maid so soon after the kidnapping is a bit suspicious, as well. He might not have acted alone, but Hauptmann was definitely involved.
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QuetzelcoatlOffline
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PostPosted: 05-03-2003 10:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cant agree me auld son. The whole shambles was dicey and railroaded through. DNA aside, it would never have made Court today.

Ogopogo wrote:

Sorry, but there's too much circumstantial evidence to say that Hauptmann was innocent. 1) The ransom money was found in his garage, though he actually said it belonged to a dead business associate. 2) He quit his job the very same day the ransom money was delivered.[/B]


The money in the garage is the only solid evidence and Hauptmans story stands up, ie: it was left with him by Fisch.

Hauptman quit jobs like a man who cant hold down a job. This quitting is not evidence, its purely circumstantial.

Hauptman had had dealings with his dead chum, Isidor Fisch in several lightweight scams, mostly in the Bronx. Both had low level criminal records, but so did many Lindberg servents.

Fisch had a heavy German accent, Hauptman had a light one. Telephone conversations with the go-between indicated person always spoke in a heavy German accent. The ransom note is heavily Germanic…

Dear Sir
Have 50,000 $ redy 25 000 $ in 20 $ bills 1,5000 $ in 10 $ bills and 10000 $ in 5 $ bills. After 2-4 days we will inform you were to deliver the Mony
We warn you for making anyding public or for notify the polise the child is in gute care.


Quote:
3) When he lived in Germany, he was convicted of burglary--where he used a ladder to break into a second floor window. That's entirely too much coincidence for me.

Some of the other evidence is a little dicier, and it would not suprise me if some if it was planted, like the ladder rung.


So Hauptman is guilty of any crime in his vicinity involving a first floor ladder entry?

The ladder used was pounded together with nails and very crude, Hauptman was a skilled carpenter. Fisch wasn’t.

Quote:
[B]The suicide of the Lindbergh's maid so soon after the kidnapping is a bit suspicious, as well. He might not have acted alone, but Hauptmann was definitely involved.


The maid, Violet Sharpe had a seriously dodgy past. An unbalanced alcoholic, her affair with the alcoholic butler led to an abortion and on the night she was in a Roadhouse with a man who had picked her up.

The fact that she was in charge of the kid may well have led her to think her life, not too smart before the event, was over. Unemployable, notorious, plus her existing problems…

And finally, why didn’t Hauptman accept the offer of a commuted sentence if he confessed? He even refused an offer of $75,000 for his wife and son if he confessed. He couldn’t. He didn’t do it.

the 'Lindberg Hoax' theory is interesting (IE: Lindberg did it as a prank, or Annes mad sister Elizabeth did it and Lindberg covered up) but off thread cos if true, Rynners geezer really cant be the dead Lindberg baby.

unless he is the [B]walking dead
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PostPosted: 05-03-2003 11:20    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing like checking your facts after the event….

Just dug up this

(extract)

Hauptmann was interrogated, possibly beaten, and maintained that the money had been given to him by Isador Fisch, a business partner, before Fisch had departed for Germany in December, 1933.
Later, Insp. Lewis J. Bornmann of the New Jersey State Police discovered a missing rafter in Hauptmann's attic that corresponded to one of the uprights of the kidnap ladder. Koehler confirmed that the missing length of lumber matched, even to nail holes, the bottom section.


which I hadnt read when I wrote the above.

a good defence lawyer could still demonstrate the money and ladder spar were circumstantial, IMHO.

what happened to the missing $36k ?
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rynner
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PostPosted: 22-04-2003 20:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOS ANGELES, California (AP) -- Rare recordings of a radio broadcast on the Lindbergh trial and a landmark TV drama have been discovered, the Museum of Television & Radio said Tuesday.
Quote:
The recording made about the 1935 trial of Bruno Hauptmann for the kidnapping and killing of famed aviator Charles Lindbergh's baby son is the only known one in existence, the museum said.

The other discovery, the acclaimed 1954 jury room drama "Twelve Angry Men," has not been seen in its entirety since the initial broadcast and was among the museum's most sought-after programs.

Broadcasting in its early days was considered disposable and so much was lost that the discoveries take on greater importance, said Robert Thompson, professor of media and popular culture at Syracuse University.

"Whenever anyone is able to reclaim even a little corner of broadcasting history, it warms our hearts," he said. "It's a little bit more to sink our teeth into."

The Lindbergh recordings features prominent New York defense attorney Samuel Leibowitz's daily accounts of the trial. His trial analysis was broadcast from the studio of New York radio station WHN and was recorded on metal disc.

The recording was in the possession of Leibowitz's children, who also had a 16mm film copy of a kinescope of "Twelve Angry Men."

"The Lindbergh trial coverage offers unique insight into the judicial system in America at that time and will serve as a valuable document for historians and scholars," museum President Robert M. Batscha said.

...

But the Lindbergh find is particularly exciting, [Thompson] said.

A recording provides the texture of the event in a way a court transcript cannot, he said. The trial's intense coverage also is a reminder of how long we've lived in a media-driven age.

"The problems with us now, with regard to 'stories of the century' mentality, the feeding frenzy the media can create among themselves and listeners and viewers, is a phenomenon that has been with us for a while," Thompson said. "It didn't start with Monica or O.J."
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PostPosted: 23-04-2003 08:40    Post subject: Reply with quote

one gruesome aspect of the case concerns the botched scene of crime protocols and the strangely hurried autopsy

it was announced that the baby died due to a massive skull injury consistant with being dropped on its head (assumed by many to be a slip from the ladder) but that there was a hole at the base of the skull

this was not persued since a police sergent at the scene was seen to 'Poke the babies head with a stick'

he did WHAT? Eek Eek
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Anonymous
PostPosted: 27-04-2003 13:08    Post subject: Father and son Reply with quote

Whenever I read about this case I like to remind people that Gen. Schwartzkopf's father had been employed by the NJ State Police as parto f their botched investigation. Later he moved to Persia - now Iran - and helped set up the security force that would become the Shah's dreaded Savak.
In 1991 sonny boy led the allied troops to a victory of sorts in Iraq. I read a post - Desert Storm interview with poet Allen Ginsberg who declared that the general and his father had "heavy karma" in that part of the world. Until I did some research, I'd written off AG's remarks as hippy rhetoric. Shows how wrong you can be.
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PostPosted: 28-04-2003 09:47    Post subject: Re: Father and son Reply with quote

condreye buch wrote:

Whenever I read about this case I like to remind people that Gen. Schwartzkopf's father had been employed by the NJ State Police as parto f their botched investigation. Later he moved to Persia - now Iran - and helped set up the security force that would become the Shah's dreaded Savak.
In 1991 sonny boy led the allied troops to a victory of sorts in Iraq. I read a post - Desert Storm interview with poet Allen Ginsberg who declared that the general and his father had "heavy karma" in that part of the world. Until I did some research, I'd written off AG's remarks as hippy rhetoric. Shows how wrong you can be.


yep, Schwartzkopf's Dad was one of the 'Three Colnels' who botched the original investigation.

But I didnt know he setup the Savak for the Shah
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PostPosted: 10-05-2003 21:17    Post subject: Reply with quote

The weakest part of the case against Hauptmann was always the ladder. The "discovery" of a missing rafter from which part of the ladder was constructed has been the subject of some investigation and there was a strong suspicion that it was manufactured evidence being presented without itemised proof.

IIRC Hauptmann was found after spending a small amount of the money he found in the garage, but nothing like $36,000 which is equivalent in todays terms of about £500,000 - £600,000 pounds.

Do not make too much of the rapid disposal of the Lindberg child, Forensic science was in it's infancy and little more would have been found than the fracture. It would also be a mistake to make too much of Lindberg's apparent cruelty in raising the child, times change and people with them.
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