Forums

Posted: 22-01-2004 02:49 Post subject:

maybe if we all emailed suggesting a new column of facisimile reproductions of....

can I have a cut if they buy it off you????? Smile

Kath

Posted: 22-01-2004 05:10 Post subject:

stonedoggy: Good idea - send it in!!

Anyone else who has interesting stuff like the lying around - scan it in and lets see it Wink

Emps

Posted: 22-01-2004 09:31 Post subject:

"stonedoggy: Good idea - send it in!!"

Eek Eek

not me! I'm shy retiring and easily startled!

Kath

Posted: 22-01-2004 11:08 Post subject:

stonedoggy: All the better - writing to a magazine should prove to be pretty low on the startlometer Wink

They could do reproductions of seminal clippings, etc.

Emps

Posted: 22-01-2004 11:26 Post subject:

I'm off to Hungary any day and when I'm back there'll be an ebay blitz!

I'll be so broke I'll sell anything that isn't nailed down so if FT haven't contacted me about the newspaper it'll be going on there with the novelty teapots and Goth accessories. Wink

Posted: 22-01-2004 13:53 Post subject:

Posted: 22-01-2004 14:49 Post subject:

Yup of course, Emps M8. It's safe for now.

I expected to see a nice little write-up in the FT on it, with perhaps a carefully airbrushed photo of a suspiciously glamorous-looking gastropod holding it aloft, but it looks sadly as if fame will continue to elude me for the time being.
Very Happy

I tried the CFI too but had no reply.

Posted: 23-02-2004 20:18 Post subject: Deleted except for link

"Explorers from other Worlds?"

Posted: 23-02-2004 20:24 Post subject: Re: About Time, Eh?

Posted: 25-02-2004 19:36 Post subject:

I am happy too. I'd like to see the scan on the 'net though, gives the letter a cosily authentic feel. Wink

Posted: 29-02-2004 22:42 Post subject:

THAT DAMNED FORT - Thoughts on the "Escargot Letter"

"A procession of the damned. By the damned I mean the excluded." So wrote Charles Fort at the very begining of his masterpiece, The Book of the Damned. What Fort was getting at was that his damned were the ignored, the down trodden, the put aside and ridiculed flotsam and jetsum of strange phenomena shunned by the religion of science.

Fort's frustration at his own stacked boxes of small paper notes became ironically reflected within these web pages, here on the mesage board a letter printed in a 1925 edition of T.P.'s and Cassell's Weekly and written by Fort himself was posted. We Fortean's viewing this treasure oo'd and ahh'd expressions of joy, envy and jealousy at the discovered writing, copies were down loaded, forwarded and printed and suggestions made as to who or where the best place was to archive this treasure. We awaited results, nothing big, just the knowledge that this article was found and that it was being passed onto people who could research, archive and disseminate this information better than we amatuers could possibly manage. A month passed, nothing, then two and still nothing then three then four and five and so on. We were finally becoming to relise that our own piece of Forteana was damned, and damned by those who should know better - Forteans themselves.

T.P.'s and Cassell's Weekly was founded in 1902 by T.P. O'Connor, the Irish Nationalist and Member of Parliament. Each week it would offer a prize of one guinea for the best letter sent in by its readers. In the 6 June 1925 edition the winner of the prize was a letter entitled "Explorers from other Worlds?" and written by a Charles Fort of London. The brief letter sets out a theory that the earth is visited from time to time by explorers from other worlds and gives two examples of objects seen in the sky. The first a fleet of lights witnessed at sea between Japan and Shanghai and the second of a "torpedo-shapped body" over Burlington Vermont.

Forteans being Forteans questions started to be asked of this letter, of its veracity and whether or not it was our Charles Fort? After all Charles and Fort are seemingly common names, a brief look through my local telephone directory gives three Fort's at three different addresses and all with the same initial 'R', (a fortean event in its own right!). During 1925 Fort was living in London, in a flat above a grocers at 39 Marchmont Street and pulling together much of the data for LO! His routine at the time was to spend half his day working at home on his notes and the other half deep in a pile of books, periodicals and newspapers at the British Museum Library. Four or five evenings a week he and Anna, his wife, would visit the cinema, Fort haiving a liking for Lillian Gish and the adventure films of Jack Holt. Other evenings Fort would go to Hyde Park where he had found "a congenial group of loungers to argue with."

The letter is signed Charles Fort, it is his practice to do so, (see FT175:56). It must be admitted that in correspondence to Theodore Drieser he would sign letters as C. Fort, C.F., F, Fort and at least on one occasion Saint Charles! But, on the whole these are informal communications, where formality is needed then Charles Fort is used. From the few letters I have access to he never used 'Hoy', his middle name and his mothers maiden name!

The two examples of aerial phenomena given in the letter both appear in Fort's The Book of the Damned where the cases are dealt with in greater detail, sadly the letter offers no new information or insight. The original source material from Nature and the Monthly Weather Review have been traced and verified by that Fortean saint, Mr X.:

"Nature, May 25, 1893:
A letter from capt. Charles J. Norcock, of H.M.S. Caroline:
That, upon the 24th of February, 1893, at 10 p.m., bwtween Shanghai and Japan, the officer of the watch had reported "some unusual lights."
They were between the ship and mountain. The mountain was about 6,000 feet high. the lights seemed to be globular. They moved sometimes massed, but sometimes strung out in an irregular line. they bore "northward," until lost to sight. duration two hours.
The next night the lights were seen again.
they were, for a time, eclipsed by a small island. they bore north at about the same speed and in about the same direction as speed and direction of the Caroline. But they were lights that cast a reflection: there was a glare upon the horizon under them. a telescope brought out but few details: that they were reddish, and seemed to emit a faint smoke. This time the duration was seven and a half hours.
Then capt. Norcock says that, in the same general locality, and at about the same time, Capt. Castle, of H.M.S. Leander, had seen lights. He had altered his course and had made towards them. The lights had fled from him. At least, they had moved higher in the sky." - The Book of the Damned, Books, Page297

[*Chas. J. Norcock. "An atmosheric phenomenon in the North China Sea." Nature, 48 (May 25, 1893):76-7. The observation was made on February 24, 1893, at 32 58' N, 126 33' E., south of Cheju Do (Quelpart Island); and, the mountain was Halla San (Mount Auckland). Correct quote: "They bore north (magnetic) . .*
- From the notes of Mr X in his online edition of the Book of the Damned.]

"Monthly Weather Review, 1907-310:
That, July 2, 1907, in the town of Burlington, Vermont, a terrific explosion had been heard throughout the city. A ball of light, or a luminous object, had been seen to fall from the sky - or from a torpedo-shaped thing, or construction, in the sky. No one had seen this thing that had exploded fall from a larger body that was in the sky - but if we accept that at the same time there was a larger body in the sky -
My own acceptance is that a dirigible in the sky, or a construction that showed every sign of disrupting, had barely time to drop - whatever it did drop - and to speed away to safety above.
The following story is told, in the Review, by Bishop John S. Michaud:
"I was standing on the corner of Church and college Streets, just in front of the Howard bank, and facing east, engaged in conversation with Ex-Governor Woodbury and Mr A.A. Buell, when, without the slightest indication, or warning, we were startled by what sounded like a most unusual and terrific explosion, evidently very nearby. raising my eyes, and looking eastward along College Street, I observed a torpedo-shaped body, some 300 feet away, stationary in appearance, and suspended in the air, about 50 feet above the tops of buildings. In size it was about 6 feet long by 8 inches in diameter, the shell, or covering, having a dark appearance, with here and there tongues of fire issuing from spots on the surface, resembling red-hot, unburnished copper. Although stationary when first noticed, this object soon began to move, rather slowly, and disappeared over Dolan brothers' store, southward. As it moved, the covering seemed rupturing in places, and through these the intensely red flames issued."
Bishop Michaud attempts to correlate it with meteorological observations.
because of the nearby view this is perhaps the most remarkable of the new correlates, . . . . . "

[*William H. Alexander. "a possible case of ball lightening." Monthly Weather Review, 35 (July 1907): 310-311. Correct quote: ". . . the shell or covering having a dark appearance . . ." - From the notes of Mr X in his online edition of the Book of the Damned.]

We know at this time Fort was carrying out correspondence, see FT175:56 for the letter to H.J. Barrett, April of 1925. A year latter he would write letters investigating a fall of fish to the Toronto Daily Star. Also we can assume that Fort new of 'T.P.s' at this time. It is used as a source in his books only once, the edition of September 11 1926, for the spontaneous image on the walls of Christchurch, Oxford of the likeness of the late Dean Liddell, who died in the year 1898. (Wild Talents, Books p962).

I can conclude by saying that i'm as sure as any Fortean can be that the letter is by our Charles Fort. However the greater question remains - what are we amatuers to do with Forteana like this letter? The answer, I think, is to disseminate and scatter them about as widely as possible. Keep them out of the hands of people who claim ownership and expertise, make notes upon them, draw your own conclusions, publish where possible on the net or in magazines - don't allow these treasures to be damned.

****************************************************

I wrote the above a few weeks ago during a long wet sunday. For what purpose? Who knows! I guess it's better to get these thoughts down on paper than let them drift about the aether. A big thanks to Mr X for publishing the "Escargot Letter" on his excellent website - just a shame updates and additions aren't more common! It's unfortunate that the folks at Fortean Towers have chose to ignore the discovery, the sacrifice of half a page of computer game reviews for a small image and write-up would have been welcome. Researched properly it could of perhaps been expanded to a short 'forum' article.

What next? It would be nice if the full text of the source material could be recorded here; from Nature, 48 (May 25, 1893):76-7 and Monthly Weather Review, 35 (July 1907): 310-311 - perhaps Mr X could help here? I checked at my local 'big city' library to see if they carry copy of T.P.'s in their archives, they don't! We could also have a look at following issues of TP's to see if comments, responces or follow-ups were published. Perhaps some kind soul in the 'big smoke' or across the Irish Sea could check their libraries and post any results. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Posted: 01-03-2004 05:48 Post subject: "There is another...."

As Colossus might say.

Fort had another letter, entitled "Projectiles From Other Worlds," published in T.P.'s Weekly, (which, I believe, was published in 1925, before August).

Posted: 01-03-2004 19:13 Post subject:

Bravo, Byron! Smile

Many thanks for your thoughtful comments and painstaking research!

Yes, we Forteans need to keep such things safe for posterity.
I am in Hungary until April and so can't do anything with the newspaper with the letter in, but rest assured that it is in good hands.

I have sent out the scan to plenty of people and I hope it is being passed around, and as soon as a reputable Fortean organisation or researcher asks me for it they can have it!
Wink

Posted: 01-11-2004 09:38 Post subject: Update

Magonia magazine

I met John Rimmer, editor of Magonia, at Uncon and showed him the Fort letter. His face was a picture, as they say. John has borrowed it to show around and intends to feature it in his Magonia report on Uncon.

I expect MIB visits, strange telephone interference and clumsily-resealed snail mail* from now on.

John and I met when snatching a last-minute book-browse. What a stroke of luck all round!

* Should that be snail snail mail? Wink

Posted: 01-11-2004 15:25 Post subject:

I'm afraid to report that escargot may have used her feminine charms on the poor man!!!

Let us know when it is out as I'd love to see it in print.

#cough#FT#cough#