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Bigfoot73 Great Old One Joined: 19 May 2009 Total posts: 1079 Location: Leeds Gender: Male |
 Posted: 17-12-2012 19:55 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Looks a lot more like lumps of extruded lava, or slag. Pyro-plastic, rather than organic forms. Thrown out of their source like bombs in the low gravity, full of expanding hot gases in the low atmosphere and cooled fast in the low temperatures.
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A very succinct description Pietro. Lava has seemed like the best geological answer but for one major difference : the lava in your linked pics has holes of varying size and number by area in it, whereas the 'coral' has biological features imposed on it. I don't think lava would weather or shatter to leave forms like that, and the larger rocks were rounded by water rather than being cooled extrudud lava.
Not sure about this at all but I don't think there are any local candidates for a source either.
| Quote: | | Could be simulacra |
If a convincing geological explanation can be found.
| Quote: | | Never mind the rocky dead fish - look towards the lower left of the middle - it's clearly the Hand of Fear from Doctor Who! |
Don't know about hands but there are fingers! I found some more examples last night and will post links shortly. |
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| Pietro_Mercurios Heuristically Challenged
Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 17-12-2012 20:38 Post subject: |
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| Bigfoot73 wrote: | | Quote: | Looks a lot more like lumps of extruded lava, or slag. Pyro-plastic, rather than organic forms. Thrown out of their source like bombs in the low gravity, full of expanding hot gases in the low atmosphere and cooled fast in the low temperatures.
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A very succinct description Pietro. Lava has seemed like the best geological answer but for one major difference : the lava in your linked pics has holes of varying size and number by area in it, whereas the 'coral' has biological features imposed on it. I don't think lava would weather or shatter to leave forms like that, and the larger rocks were rounded by water rather than being cooled extrudud lava.
Not sure about this at all but I don't think there are any local candidates for a source either.
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In fact, top right hand of the picture, there's a rock that I'd go as far as to say, looks quite like a lava 'bomb', complete with representative tail.
http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/Imgs/Jpg/Photoglossary/30410914-028_large.JPG
Plenty of sand storms and weathering on the red planet. Would like to see what some of those Martian rocks looked like, dusted off. |
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| Bigfoot73 Great Old One Joined: 19 May 2009 Total posts: 1079 Location: Leeds Gender: Male |
| Posted: 17-12-2012 21:46 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | In fact, top right hand of the picture, there's a rock that I'd go as far as to say, looks quite like a lava 'bomb', complete with representative tail.
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Yes there is, and I think I've got a better pic of it to post. These are all Mastcam Sol 79 images. |
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| Bigfoot73 Great Old One Joined: 19 May 2009 Total posts: 1079 Location: Leeds Gender: Male |
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| ramonmercado Psycho Punk
Joined: 19 Aug 2003 Total posts: 17933 Location: Dublin Gender: Male |
| Posted: 08-01-2013 20:14 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Sleep problems could jeopardise future missions to Mars
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-20937729
By Pallab Ghosh
Science correspondent, BBC News
The Mars500 crew - pictured here before the mission - were to experience isolation and depression during their simulated journey
Some of the first results from a simulation of a mission to Mars show that some of the crew experienced isolation and mild depression.
Research published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences suggests differences in the sleep patterns of the crew caused problems.
The findings suggest that not all current astronauts will be suited to interplanetary travel.
The Mars500 project investigated how crews would cope on a real mission.
Prof Mathias Basner, of the University of Pennsylvania - who was involved in the sleep study - says that the findings show that astronauts for any future Mars missions should be tested for their ability to cope without a natural day/night cycle.
"This illustrates that there are huge differences between individuals and what we need to do is select the right crew, people with the right stuff, and train them properly and once they are on the real mission to Mars," he told BBC News.
Continue reading the main story
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"This illustrates that there are huge differences between individuals and what we need to do is select the right crew, people with the right stuff”
Prof Mathias Basner
University of Pennsylvania
Currently, no astronaut is in space for longer than six months on the International Space Station (ISS). The aim of the 17 month-long Mars500 project was to study the physical and psychological effects that the much longer journey to Mars might have on future astronauts.
The simulation involved six crew members: three Russians, two Europeans and one Chinese volunteer.
For much of the time, the men had only limited contact with the outside world. Their spaceship had no windows, and the protocols demanded their communications endured a similar time lag to that encountered by real messages as they travel the vast distance between Earth and Mars.
Nearly 100 different experiments were carried out to assess the impact of the journey on the men, and it is only now that the first results are emerging.
The sleep experiment is among the first to show what each crew member went through during their simulated mission.
The researchers found that one crew member lost his natural day/night rhythm completely. Instead of a 24-hour cycle, he slipped into a 25-hour day so after 12 days he was completely out of sync with his fellow crew mates. It was the middle of the night for him while his colleagues were working on the mission.
"You can imagine that that would be good during a real Mars mission when there are mission critical tasks planned during the day," said Prof Basner.
"He became somewhat isolated. For 20% of the time this crew member was either the only crew member awake or the only person sleeping which could potentially be a problem for team cohesion," he said.
Most of the crew members began to sleep more and become less active as the mission wore on, but one crew member did the opposite. He slept less and less during the mission until he became chronically sleep deprived.
All the crew had to carry out performance tests once a week. The sleep deprived member was responsible for the majority of the errors in the tests.
Another crew member developed a mild depression.
"Two crew members coped really well with this prolonged confinement and isolation," according to Prof Basner.
Continue reading the main story
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Sleep deprivation is likely to be a real problem on future Mars missions. ”
Dr Kevin Fong
Space medicine expert
"But four of them had a problem where you would think you don't want to send someone like this on the mission or if you do, you want to know that this subject is vulnerable and train him or her properly."
Problems manifested themselves at between two and four months and so, the research team suggests, potential interplanetary astronauts could be screened for their suitability by being put through a much shorter simulation than the Mars500 project.
Another problem identified by the researchers was the dim fluorescent lighting which was not bright enough to simulate daylight and no protocol for differentiating between day and night in the simulated spacecraft. It was up to the crew members when to turn the light on and off.
The experiment even simulates surface operations at the Red Planet
"This is one of the take home messages," according to Prof Basner. "There has to be adequate lighting and it has to be strong enough to get the day/night cycle going and the time that the crew exposes itself to the light also has to be optimal."
Dr Kevin Fong, who is an expert on space medicine said that the research confirms that sleep deprivation is likely to be a real problem on future Mars missions.
"It needs to be taken seriously," he said. "Sleep deprivation is going to happen with crews and has the potential to affect mission safety."
Dr Iya Whiteley who is the deputy director at the Centre for Space Medicine, Mullard Space Science Laboratory, said that there were also lessons to be learned for shift workers on Earth.
"Any individual undertaking accurate detailed work without normal day/night cycle will be affected, whether it is the air traffic controller on shift work, or nuclear power workers."
Follow Pallab on Twitter |
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| ramonmercado Psycho Punk
Joined: 19 Aug 2003 Total posts: 17933 Location: Dublin Gender: Male |
| Posted: 09-01-2013 14:04 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Help Wanted: Astronauts Needed for Mars Colony (vid)
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/01/mars-astronaut-requirements/
BY NADIA DRAKE01.08.133:04 PM
Mars One, a nonprofit organization based in the Netherlands, intends to establish a human settlement on Mars in 2023.
They need astronauts.
Anyone on planet Earth can apply if they meet the basic requirements. But obviously, the job isn’t for just anyone.
Today, Mars One released its application criteria. Among other virtues, astronaut candidates must have “a deep sense of purpose, willingness to build and maintain healthy relationships, the capacity for self-reflection and ability to trust. They must be resilient, adaptable, curious, creative and resourceful.” And be at least 18 years old (no maximum age has been set).
The selection process will begin during the first half of 2013. Mars One experts and viewers of a “global, televised program” — think reality TV where the prize could be a trip to a dry, dusty world — will choose from among the applications. Those ultimately selected will be assembled into teams of four. At least six teams are supposed to be ready to launch in September 2022. But only one team will make the first trip to the Red Planet, and that team will be decided democratically.
“The people of Earth will have a vote which group of four will be the first Earth ambassadors on Mars,” the Mars One website says. Subsequent teams will be sent in two-year intervals.
At least eight years of training will be provided before launch, including simulated missions, practice in a restricted mobility environment, and lessons in electronics, equipment repair, basic and critical medical care. In 2016, the company plans to begin rocketing supplies to Mars, including spare parts, two rovers, and living units that can be assembled into a base once humans arrive.
But it’s a one-way trip for all involved: Once on Mars, there’s no coming back. |
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| kamalktk Great Old One Joined: 05 Feb 2011 Total posts: 705 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 09-01-2013 14:34 Post subject: |
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The last two articles cover the Mars500 and the MarsOne.
Clearly the Mars 500 is superior by 499.  |
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| ramonmercado Psycho Punk
Joined: 19 Aug 2003 Total posts: 17933 Location: Dublin Gender: Male |
| Posted: 28-01-2013 15:32 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Nuclear-Powered Rocket Could Reach Mars for Less
http://www.space.com/19451-nuclear-thermal-rocket-petition.html
Francie Diep, TechNewsDaily Staff Writer
Date: 25 January 2013 Time: 04:59 PM ET
Illustration of a nuclear thermal rocket. Such rockets could be a major part of manned missions to other planets in the solar system.
CREDIT: NASA
A new online petition seeks to send people into space sooner, using a Kennedy-era technology that never had the chance to take flight. At We the People, a website that lets users submit petitions to the Obama Administration, one petition urges officials to "harness the full intellectual and industrial strength of our universities, national laboratories and private enterprise to rapidly develop and deploy a nuclear thermal rocket."
What does that mean? And should you sign the petition? Well, nuclear thermal rockets could play a major role in sending people to other planets in the future. The rockets are at least twice as efficient as current chemical rockets, which means they could carry more supplies, support heavier shields against cosmic radiation and take astronauts to other planets more quickly.
"I wouldn't go so far as to say we couldn't do Mars without nuclear thermal," NASA nuclear engineer Mike Houts said, referring to manned missions. "What it does is it opens up very attractive options for doing those missions."
Because of their increased carrying capability, nuclear rockets may ultimately offer a more cost-effective option for a manned Mars mission than chemical rockets do, Houts thinks.
NASA currently performs some research, led by Houts, into nuclear thermal rockets. However, in spite of the petition-signers' interest, the project is small. Its budget for hardware and contractors this year is just under $3 million. "It's really in the early stages," Houts told TechNewsDaily. "There are no definite plans to use the engine."
How it works
Nuclear thermal engines use a nuclear reaction to heat pure hydrogen, ideally to 2,800 degrees Kelvin (4,580 degrees Fahrenheit). This rapidly expands the hydrogen, which shoots out a nozzle to generate thrust.
Houts' team, based at the Marshall Space Flight Center in Alabama, is now focused on testing different fuel elements. For this work, they don't need to split uranium and start a nuclear reaction. Instead, they use radio-frequency heating to bring uranium-based fuel elements to sizzling temperatures, then flow hydrogen over the elements.
The researchers test coatings and the fuel elements' resiliency to rapid changes in temperature — repeatedly turning the heat turned off and on, which is likely to happen in a real-life rocket. Once they finish this non-nuclear testing, the researchers will move onto tests with a true nuclear reaction, Houts said.
Nuclear thermal engines don't pose the same danger of meltdown as nuclear power plants such as Chernobyl or Fukushima, Houts said. The operation of power plants creates fission products that accumulate. During a meltdown, those materials undergo radioactive decay, creating heat. A nuclear propulsion system, on the other hand, doesn't operate at high power before a launch and doesn't accumulate fission products that could cause a meltdown, Houts explained.
Nevertheless, he said his team will have to develop a system that won't accidentally turn on when it's not supposed to, which would expose nearby people to high doses of radiation.
Plenty of work already done
Houts' team's work builds on advances made at NASA between 1955 and 1973. The We the People petition mentions that President John F. Kennedy attended one of those tests. (He wore Ray-Bans.)
"That work progressed to a very advanced stage. They'd done 20 full-engine tests on the ground. It really was ready to go into the flight-development stage," Houts said.
After 1973, however, the Nixon Administration decided to focus on the space shuttle instead of sending humans to Mars. So research into nuclear thermal rockets was shuttered.
"What we're doing right now is using 21st century technologies or 21st century manufacturing materials and going back and recapturing what was done in the '60s and early '70s," Houts said. Should President Obama or a future president decide to use the technology to go to Mars or another planet, "we have a very good, very logical development path" to ready rockets for liftoff, Houts said.
He says he's glad people have enough interest in the technology to start a petition. "Any time people are expressing interest in those subjects, personally, I think it's great," he said.
This story was provided by TechNewsDaily, sister site to SPACE.com. Follow TechNewsDaily on Twitter @TechNewsDaily, or on Facebook. |
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| Zilch5 Vogon Poet
Great Old One Joined: 08 Nov 2007 Total posts: 1527 Location: Western Sydney, Australia Gender: Male |
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| rynner2 What a Cad!
Great Old One Joined: 13 Dec 2008 Total posts: 21365 Location: Under the moon Gender: Male |
| Posted: 09-02-2013 11:19 Post subject: |
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It's a stereoscopic periscope. The Martians live mostly underground, so they use these to keep track of any surface activity... |
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| Mythopoeika Boring petty conservative
Joined: 18 Sep 2001 Total posts: 9109 Location: Not far from Bedford Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 09-02-2013 11:29 Post subject: |
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| That whole area looks like an ancient lava field, and it's possible that the object is a pyroclastic extrusion (i.e. some lava that got frozen in position very quickly after erupting up from the surface). |
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| ramonmercado Psycho Punk
Joined: 19 Aug 2003 Total posts: 17933 Location: Dublin Gender: Male |
| Posted: 04-03-2013 01:56 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Mars trip to use astronaut poo as radiation shield
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23230-mars-trip-to-use-astronaut-poo-as-radiation-shield.html
18:45 01 March 2013 by Jacob Aron and Lisa Grossman
For similar stories, visit the Spaceflight and Exploring Mars Topic Guides
The man and woman aboard the Inspiration Mars mission set to fly-by the Red Planet in 2018 will face cramped conditions, muscle atrophy and potential boredom. But their greatest health risk comes from exposure to the radiation from cosmic rays. The solution? Line the spacecraft's walls with water, food and their own faeces.
"It's a little queasy sounding, but there's no place for that material to go, and it makes great radiation shielding," says Taber MacCallum, a member of the team funded by multimillionaire Dennis Tito, who announced the audacious plan earlier this week.
McCallum told New Scientist that solid and liquid human waste products would get put into bags and used as a radiation shield – as well as being dehydrated so that any water can be recycled for drinking. "Dehydrate them as much as possible, because we need to get the water back," he said. "Those solid waste products get put into a bag, put right back against the wall."
Food too, could be used as a shield, he said. "Food is going to be stored all around the walls of the spacecraft, because food is good radiation shielding," he said. This wouldn't be dangerous as the food would merely be blocking the radiation, it wouldn't become a radioactive source.
Water 1 – Metals 0
The details of Inspiration Mars's plans have yet to be clarified, but the team has said it will be using "state-of-the-art technologies derived from NASA and the International Space Station".
One idea that is already under consideration by the agency's Innovative Advanced Concepts programme, which funds research into futuristic space technology, is a project called Water Walls, which combines life-support and waste-processing systems with radiation shielding.
Water has long been suggested as a shielding material for interplanetary space missions. "Water is better than metals for protection," says Marco Durante of the Technical University of Darmstadt in Germany. That's because nuclei are the things that block cosmic rays, and water molecules, made of three small atoms, contain more nuclei per volume than a metal.
Water shielding also has another benefit – you can drink it. Such dual use is essential aboard a spacecraft, where space is at a premium. Applying this rationale, the Water Walls concept involves polyethylene bags that use osmosis to process clean drinking water from urine and faeces.
Sights and smells
Lining the walls of a spacecraft with layers of these bags creates a 40-centimetre-thick liquid shield. All of the bags would initially be filled with drinking water. The crew would then fill other bags with waste during the trip to Mars and swap them out for the now-empty water bags.
The osmosis-based processing is much simpler than the automated life-support systems aboard the International Space Station, making it less likely to fail during the long ride to Mars.
However, there are problems to be ironed out. The urine-to-water processing bags were tested in orbit on the last ever flight of the space shuttle in 2011 and found to be 50 per cent less efficient in microgravity than in ground-based tests.
Besides testing that the various bags work properly, the Water Walls team points out the more basic worry of dealing with the residual sights and smells. MacCallum made a similar point about the system to be used on Inspiration Mars: "Hopefully they're not clear bags," he said.
Solar danger
Not all bags need be equally unpleasant, though. The Water Walls concept also includes bags that scrub carbon dioxide from air, regulate temperature and grow algae for food – although NASA hasn't yet taken those to space.
Inspiration Mars also plans to have an external water tank and the aluminium skin of the spacecraft itself for extra protection. This kind of shielding should keep astronauts safe from lower energy cosmic rays, says Ruth Bamford of the Rutherford Appleton Laboratory in Didcot, UK, who is working on creating magnetic "deflector shields" for spacecraft.
Organic material or aluminium is no defence against the burst of particles that occasionally spew out from the sun during a solar storm, however. "For this, putting three metres of concrete may not be enough to protect the astronauts," says Bamford. Inspiration Mars say they should be able to keep the upper rocket stage of their launch vehicle attached to the spacecraft for the whole of the trip, and point that towards the sun in the event of a flare.
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| kamalktk Great Old One Joined: 05 Feb 2011 Total posts: 705 Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 14-04-2013 19:24 Post subject: |
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Space enthusiasts may have found the lost Soviet Mars 3 probe by searching NASA photos
http://www.skyandtelescope.com/news/Has-the-Mars-3-Lander-Been-Found-202642311.html
"More than four decades ago, the Soviet Union dropped a heavily instrumented craft onto the Martian surface intact — only to have it fall silent seconds later. After a prolonged search, a group of Russian space enthusiasts think they've finally spotted it in NASA imagery. " |
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| rynner2 What a Cad!
Great Old One Joined: 13 Dec 2008 Total posts: 21365 Location: Under the moon Gender: Male |
| Posted: 30-04-2013 22:49 Post subject: |
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David Shukman Science editor
Prospect of one-way Mars trip captures the imagination
Twenty years ago when scientists at CERN created the first page for the World Wide Web no one could have imagined how easily it would transform the ability of humankind to have conversations around the globe.
Nor could they have predicted that a web-based debate would have explored the apparently outlandish idea of volunteers travelling on a one-way ticket to Mars and setting up a colony with no prospect of return - all on live television.
The technology for that kind of space travel didn't exist back then. The TV show Big Brother hadn't been invented. And the three letters 'www' were known to only a handful of people.
But on Tuesday afternoon, in a Google 'hangout' - the first of this type of web-based dialogue to be hosted by BBC News - contributors from as far afield as Arizona, Paris and Mumbai shared their thoughts with us in London on a plan for an outpost where people would live - and die - beyond Earth.
A Dutch organisation, Mars One, is seeking volunteers for a flight that would take them to the Red Planet and leave them there. The costs would be covered, it's hoped, by TV rights and corporate sponsorship.
There is something about Mars that catches the imagination - its bloody colour, its role in mythology, the terrible track record of attempts to land on its distant and dusty surface, and the prospects of finding forms of alien life.
I checked with Bas Lansdorp, boss of Mars One, for the latest number of people to sign up so far: 30,000 people had paid the 30 euro deposit by the end of last week - and that number is probably far higher now.
Applicants' videos on his website capture an extraordinary level of excitement about the chance of making the journey. So what is it that drives people to want to leave this planet and risk everything on another?
We discussed that question with Melissa Ede, who describes herself as a transgender woman, and has signed up as a contender to be selected for the Mars One mission - "failure isn't in my vocabulary," she told us before the webcast.
For her, it was about excitement and the need to explore. "How do we know it's not possible?" she asked.
That was in response to comments I'd made about the very high number of very large obstacles that need to be overcome before anyone's boots will scuff the soils of Mars.
For a start, space is difficult and expensive. There aren't colonies on the Moon or Mars right now for a reason: the challenges and costs are huge.
The preferred rocket, Falcon Heavy, has to yet to be tested by its makers, SpaceX, even though the Mars One plan calls for the first demonstration flight to land on Mars in 2016.
A satellite is due to be parked above Mars in the same year to act as a relay for live TV pictures. A British firm, Surrey Satellites, confirms to me that it has been approached by Mars One but says it needs to be paid before researching the proposal.
The Mars One plan has incredibly tight timings - possibly unrealistically tight. Various contributors agreed on the sheer scale of the technological difficulties, including Rajat Agrawal, a technology writer in Mumbai and Amy Shira Teitel, a space historian in Phoenix.
Ms Shira Teital said: "What if one of their supplies ships doesn't make it and they lose food? What's going to happen when vital parts don't make it or survive the trip? Is the crew going to eat each other? How much are we willing to make it a 'Lord of the Flies'-type situation if it all goes terribly wrong?"
Meanwhile, another communications system only made possible by the Web - Twitter - focused on the apparently appealing notion of using Mars One to rid the Earth of various people - usually politicians. One said, "you would never have to hear Justin Bieber again". 
Others asked about the practicalities, often the grim ones. "What happens to the corpses?" asked one woman in a Tweet. Fair question, and thought-provoking: colonies need cemeteries.
There's always massive interest in NASA's rovers on Mars - and robots like Curiosity are a very efficient way to explore the solar system. But there's nothing like the prospect of humans venturing there to spark excitement.
The half hour hangout passed incredibly quickly. I was reminded - by an email - of an earlier venture, Mars Express, the European Space Agency's spacecraft sent to orbit Mars.
I witnessed its launch from Baikonur in Central Asia in June 2003 - almost ten years ago. It was an uplifting sight watching the rocket blaze its way through space and the mission was a success.
But the craft was also carrying a tiny lander, the British Beagle-2, which was designed to touch down and search for signs of life. On Christmas Day, 2003, we waited for a signal - and waited and waited. The Beagle had crashed.
Imagine the risks of a manned mission to Mars, and the tension of a landing. If it gets off the ground - and it's a very big if - Mars One would provide irresistible viewing. And a lot more for us all to talk about.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22360228 |
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| Mythopoeika Boring petty conservative
Joined: 18 Sep 2001 Total posts: 9109 Location: Not far from Bedford Gender: Unknown |
| Posted: 30-04-2013 23:06 Post subject: |
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| I hear they're sending the 'B' ark before the 'A' ark... |
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